Podcast: Roundtable Talk

QUOTES

“So much of this work is nonlinear. You start out with a plan and then if you’re keeping your eyes open, the road starts to curve pretty fast.” (Dr. Kamber)

“We’re really about using technology to change the way we age because the longevity revolution in America is this slow-moving demographic shift, but it’s changing everything.” (Dr. Kamber)

“We’ve got 700 sites where people are teaching our programs around the country. It’s really become a labor of love.” (Dr. Kamber)

“Outreach is so important to really recruiting people. Even giving away a world-class program for free, you have to get out there and ask people to come.” (Dr. Kamber)

“People are full of this intense potential. And we forget that there’s no change in that as we get older.” (Dr. Kamber)

“Technology is such a tiny piece of it, but it is a little bit like taking the cork out of the bottle sometimes.” (Dr. Kamber)

“The biggest myth is that people can’t learn… that somehow there’s something wrong when in fact, it’s just that your kid is acting like a jerk.” (Dr. Kamber)

“We paid extra to have nice millwork made with teak on the walls. It’s like a social club for cool people. It just happens to be free.” (Dr. Kamber)

“Great design is an antidote to ageism.” (Dr. Kamber)

“The healthy aging part of this is the socialization of their physical activity… It’s really unleashed an opportunity for people to think about their health in a social context.” (Dr. Kamber)

“If you’re patient and you’re persistent and you’re a person with integrity… you’re gonna end up in a good place.” (Dr. Kamber)

NOTES

Dr. Tom Kamber is a national leader in aging and technology, and the founder of Older Adults Technology Services (OATS) and Senior Planet. He’s a lifelong social activist dedicated to empowering older adults through digital literacy and inclusion.

OATS, a nonprofit affiliate of AARP, provides technology education and support to older adults through its Senior Planet programs. With a presence in 700 locations across 35 states, OATS combines tech training, wellness, and social connection to help people thrive in the digital age.

OATS began after a woman asked Tom for internet help post-9/11; that simple moment sparked a national movement.

Senior Planet offers programs focused on five impact areas: financial security, social engagement, health and wellness, creative expression, and civic participation.

The most popular offering? Fitness classes like “Morning Stretch,” which regularly attracts 500–600 participants.

OATS doesn’t charge for classes to remove financial barriers and ensure inclusivity.

Their model includes licensing curriculum to local organizations for broader reach and sustainability.

The biggest myth about older adults and tech is that they can’t learn. It’s more about opportunity than ability.

Social connection is often the top reason people join Senior Planet, with digital tools helping them stay in touch.

OATS’s design philosophy includes building beautiful, functional spaces that reflect the dignity and potential of older adults.

AI and smart home tech are reshaping how older adults live and age, but safety, access, and education are key challenges.

 

QUOTES

“I realized that I really enjoyed taking care of older people for a series of reasons. One was you couldn’t really take care of the part without thinking about the whole.” (Dr. Aronson)

“I came up with this notion of elderhood as a sort of equivalence to childhood and adulthood. And I thought that was a reframe that might be helpful for us both as individuals and as a society.” (Dr. Aronson)

“It’s insulting. And when you see this in scientific studies, it absolutely lacks rigor, any evidence of truthfulness, and yet people do it all the time.” (Dr. Aronson)

“We harm our future selves because we create a self-creating, self-perpetuating fear.” (Dr. Aronson)

“It’s the only stage of life where people apologize all the time for existing, for not being able to do things.” (Dr. Aronson)

“Traits we all should have, but not all of us are lucky enough to get it. A sense of humor helps. So really basic things, because it’s very interesting.” (Dr. Aronson)

“There is just a baked-in bias that the people who need the services most are least important.” (Dr. Aronson)

“They blame old age for what was a failure to incorporate aging pharmacology and physiology into their treatment plan.” (Dr. Aronson)

“Training for all health professionals would be proportional to the amount of time they will be spending caring for that population.” (Dr. Aronson)

“Our system doesn’t give us what we want and needs to be totally restructured to prioritize health.” (Dr. Aronson)

NOTES

Dr. Louise Aronson is a geriatrician, educator, and bestselling author of Elderhood. A leading voice in redefining how we view aging, she brings decades of medical practice, personal insight, and cultural critique to her advocacy for older adults.

 Dr. Aronson is a professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF), where she also directs the campus-wide Health Humanities Initiative. Her work integrates clinical care, education, and the humanities to advance eldercare.

Her book Elderhood reframes aging as a vital, complex life stage deserving the same recognition and nuance we give childhood and adulthood. She’s a thought leader on ageism in medicine and society, and frequently collaborates on innovations in intergenerational programs, healthcare reform, and policy.

Most people don’t plan to work with older adults—but it’s meaningful, intellectually rich, and deeply needed work.

The term “elderhood” positions aging as a legitimate, diverse, and multi-decade stage of life, much like childhood or adulthood.

Society often equates aging with decline, but many older adults thrive by adapting, staying engaged, and embracing their phase of life.

There’s a dangerous tendency to treat everyone over 65 as a monolith, despite the vast range of capabilities and needs.

Health care training devotes years to children and adults, but often just hours to older adults—despite them being the largest group needing care.

Ageism in medicine shows up in subtle and overt ways—from dismissive language to inappropriate treatments based solely on age.

Culture needs to stop writing off older adults; their stories, capabilities, and lives matter and should be reflected in how we design systems and spaces.

Dr. Aronson sees hope in younger generations and entrepreneurs bringing compassion and innovation into the “elder space,” as well as boomers advocating for their own aging experience.

QUOTES

“The one thing 80-year-olds and 20-year-olds have in common is none of them have cars.” (Andrew)

“They do not want to live on what I call an elderly island. It doesn’t matter how nice it is.” (Andrew)

“Done right, it’s what I call a very rare triple win scenario. You don’t see this in business strategy where there are three parties and all of them can win.” (Andrew)

“We need to stop building what we want to build. We need to start building what our retirees actually want.” (Andrew)

“If one out of every 10 residents is wearing the sweatshirt and screaming at the TV in the pub on Saturdays, that’s going to bring the culture.” (Andrew)

“You can’t find a bigger odd couple than universities and senior living providers. They speak two completely different languages.” (Andrew)

“This is not something that just sounds like fun. It’s hard work, and you need to do your homework.” (Andrew)

“Look, we just want more than ‘it’s not a nursing home.’ That was actually fine when really the only other choice was a nursing home. And we had millions of seniors who lived in a nursing home who did not need to be there… but we need to take that next step now.” (Andrew) 

“This whole website is actually my retirement hobby. I started it the first day of my retirement.” (Andrew)

“If you’re not happy with the status quo, go to work for somebody who also isn’t happy with the status quo.” (Andrew)

“If you take them off an elderly island and put them in an intergenerational environment like a college campus, they’re going to be better.”

NOTES

Andrew Carle is a nationally recognized expert in senior living innovation and the founder of UniversityRetirementCommunities.com. He also developed the first academic concentration in senior living administration at George Mason University and now teaches at Georgetown University.

UniversityRetirementCommunities.com is the go-to resource for information on communities that blend lifelong learning with senior living. The site features nearly 90 communities nationwide and serves as a hub for universities, providers, and older adults exploring this innovative model.

Andrew has over three decades of experience as a senior living executive, educator, and consultant. He’s helped shape the university retirement community model, creating a five-point framework that many of today’s most successful communities follow. His retirement “hobby” is helping others launch URCs the right way—by fostering strategic partnerships and prioritizing campus integration.

The best university retirement communities (URCs) combine proximity to campus, structured intergenerational programming, full continuum of care, shared financial interest, and a strong alumni or cultural connection.

Proximity to campus is crucial to keep residents integrated into university life. Said Andrew, “The one thing 80-year-olds and 20-year-olds have in common is none of them have cars.” 

Organic beginnings often inspired URCs, but today they benefit from structured planning and dedicated leadership—like a “dean of residence” to manage university relationships.

“They want active, intellectually stimulating, and intergenerational retirement environments. I just described a college campus.” Boomers are seeking more than traditional senior living options.

Andrew believes URCs might not just promote better aging—they might actually reverse elements of aging by tapping into what he calls the “counterclockwise bump.”

“We invented 32 flavors of ice cream. We’re not going to settle for vanilla,” said Andrew. The industry must cater to diverse interests and identities within the boomer generation.

URCs are thriving because they’re giving retirees exactly what they want. “Howard Schultz said, you know what? People will pay $4 for a cup of coffee,” said Andrew. “You just have to stop making crappy coffee and give people what they want.” 

Successful URCs require university buy-in, but many institutions underestimate the complexity. Andrew stresses: “Educate the educators.”

 

QUOTES

“Senior living pretty much was a watered-down version of a hospital. Nobody had a choice as to when they got up or what they ate. The biggest change has been around person-directed care.” (Larry)

“When I arrived at UMC, we didn’t even own a server. We really did start from the ground up.” (Larry)

“Once the staff really got a taste of how it could impact their quality of life as caregivers, it became self-fulfilling. They became owners and advocates.” (Larry)

“AI is really the wave of the future. If we don’t jump on board at the beginning, we’re going to get left at the curb.” (Larry)

“It’s just not normal to live with 25 other strangers in a locked ward. That’s what pushed us to create something different with Avandell.” (Larry)

“Most places are treating the symptoms of dementia, not the distress that’s causing the symptoms.” (Larry)

“Pain is the number one thing that is underdiagnosed in people who have dementia. Sometimes a Tylenol once a day can change everything.” (Larry)

“Our mantra at UMC was always: Know thy resident.” (Larry)

“We want to live the life we love, or love the life we live. That goes for residents and their families.” (Larry)

“Dealing with dementia is not a hopeless situation. There can be joy in it.” (Larry)

“Don’t be so afraid. Keep moving ahead. Try things. Fail quickly. Move on.” (Larry)

NOTES

Larry Carlson is the retired president and CEO of United Methodist Communities, bringing more than 45 years of leadership and innovation to the senior living industry. During his tenure, he championed tech integration, person-directed care, and a more humane approach to dementia support.

United Methodist Communities (UMC) is a New Jersey-based senior living organization offering independent living, assisted living, memory support, and skilled nursing. UMC is known for its values-based approach and commitment to enhancing the lives of older adults through innovation and compassionate care.

Under Larry’s leadership, UMC built a tech infrastructure from scratch, implemented AI tools in operations and HR, and reimagined memory care through Avandell, a dementia village inspired by the Dutch Hogeweyk model. His book, Avandell: Reimagining the Dementia Experience, reflects his commitment to transforming the narrative around aging and dementia care.

The industry has shifted from institutional care to person-directed care, with more choice, autonomy, and respect for individual preferences.

Technology transformed UMC from the ground up, enabling faster, smarter processes across departments—from admissions to HR onboarding.

AI was a game-changer, reducing administrative tasks and freeing up staff to focus on what matters most: resident experience.

Carlson advocated for failing fast and learning quickly, pushing senior living to be more innovative and less risk-averse.

The creation of Avandell was a response to institutional dementia care models, aiming to normalize life for residents through smaller households and daily autonomy.

Treating the source of distress, not just symptoms, became central to UMC’s dementia care philosophy.

Indoor air quality is a critical but often overlooked element of resident wellness, especially in light of the pandemic.

Virtual family meetings during COVID revealed new ways to strengthen communication, with higher participation and improved transparency.

QUOTES

“You’re only as young as your spine is flexible.” (Terry)

“When you start to avoid activities, your body kind of goes along with it and stops working in a youthful way.” (Terry)

“I’m on the tracks, off the tracks, and I think that’s real for most people.” (Terry)

“I have to remember that I’m not as young on the outside as I feel on the inside.” (Terry)

“I’d much rather age naturally. And yeah, it’s no fun, but I’m not alone in it.” (Terry)

“Enjoy each phase you’re in because movies and television are telling us stories about life, and it requires all age groups to tell these stories.” (Terry)

“We all have value. And that’s what you need to focus on—your own value.” (Terry)

“I’m enough. I’m whole just the way I am. I can stop being a chameleon.” (Terry)

NOTES

Terry Farrell is an actress best known for her role as Jadzia Dax on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and as Reggie on Becker. A former model turned sci-fi icon, Terry is also an advocate for self-acceptance, aging authentically, and embracing life’s many chapters.

After stepping away from acting to be a full-time mom, Terry is re-entering the entertainment world with a renewed sense of purpose and personal authenticity. She lives in New Mexico and hopes to pursue meaningful roles that reflect who she is today—whether in television, film, or even on stage.

Terry credits yoga and movement as essential for both mental and physical wellness as we age.

Terry embraces aging naturally, resisting industry pressure to look younger through surgery or cosmetic alterations.

After a long break to raise her son, Terry is re-entering the entertainment industry with new priorities, looking for roles that reflect her true age and life stage.

Terry believes culture is evolving and there are more opportunities now for actors of all ages, thanks in part to movements like #MeToo and greater diversity in storytelling.

Terry reflects on her modeling and early acting days, acknowledging the harmful body image pressures she endured and how she’s worked to let those go.

She finds encouragement seeing actresses her age on screen and admires projects that show women aging authentically, like Capote vs. The Swans.

Sci-fi storytelling, particularly Star Trek, helped Terry explore and embody themes of longevity, identity, and empathy, both on and off screen.

QUOTES

“A man’s got to know his limitations. And I knew that it would have made for a great story. But I was happiest in consulting, where I’ve been for 35 years.” (Scott)

“If you think about the organizations that have gotten themselves into trouble in our field, it’s usually because all three—strategy, vision, and innovation—have not occurred.” (Scott)

“When a CEO says to me, ‘I’m really not that good at vision or I’m uncomfortable with it,’ that’s when it can be addressed. It’s when they don’t that you end up in a situation where one, two, or all three are missing.” (Scott)

“Innovation isn’t just people sitting around thinking about cool stuff. It could happen, but it really takes work.” (Scott)

“If you look at the number of villages that have developed over the last 15 and 20 years, it’s phenomenal. But if you look at the business model, in a very rare instance, it doesn’t succeed without fundraising donations. So the business model is flawed.” (Scott)

“When I tell you that people hate nursing homes, I’m not exaggerating. If you get a group of new nursing home administrators in a room and you ask them about the potential for them to end up in a nursing home, most of them will say, ‘I’d rather be dead.’” (Scott)

“Most of the nursing home beds in the United States, including in the not-for-profit sector, are semi-private. That’s a euphemism—because there’s really nothing private about them. It’s inhuman. And actually, there’s a difference between inhuman and inhumane. It’s both.” (Scott)

“We have to focus because this is a heavy lift—societally a heavy lift—but it’s also a huge opportunity. If we don’t do these things, if we don’t focus, it’s the for-profit sector that’s going to take it away.” (Scott)

“The nonprofit governance model is a failed model because board members don’t ask tough questions. When you talk to them, it’s clear they’re critical thinkers in their profession, but when they get into the boardroom, that willingness disappears.” (Scott)

“You want to be ageist around a baby boomer? You’re going to pay the price.” (Scott)

“We should stop feeling the necessity to invent and instead look around. Take something that’s already there and figure out how to scale it.” (Scott)

“If I had to talk to my younger self, I’d say, ‘Get to know yourself, Scott. Don’t spend so much time trying to achieve. Spend some time trying to understand you, because then you might achieve more.’” (Scott)

NOTES

Scott Townsley is a senior living strategist and consultant with over 35 years of experience helping organizations navigate challenges and embrace innovation. A former attorney and long-time industry leader, he founded Third Age, was a partner at Clifton Larson Allen, and now serves as Senior Advisor to Trilogy Consulting.

Trilogy Consulting provides strategic guidance to nonprofit senior living organizations, focusing on vision, strategy, and innovation. The firm helps organizations adapt to industry shifts, rethink traditional models, and implement forward-thinking solutions to better serve aging populations. Trilogy Connect, a related initiative, fosters collaboration and knowledge-sharing among senior living leaders.

Trilogy emphasizes the intersection of strategy, vision, and innovation, noting that organizations that fail to integrate all three often struggle.

Scott began his career as a dishwasher in a senior living community, later becoming its general counsel and ultimately being offered the CEO position.

Lack of vision and innovation hinders the senior living industry. Many organizations operate on outdated models without adapting to changing demographics and consumer expectations, leading to financial and operational challenges.

Innovation requires commitment, not just ideas. True innovation isn’t just about brainstorming new concepts—it requires structure, investment, and a willingness to rethink outdated business models.

The nonprofit governance model is failing. Board members often avoid asking tough questions, which weakens decision-making. Compensation for board members could create a stronger sense of responsibility and accountability.

People hate nursing homes. Research shows that public perception of nursing homes is overwhelmingly negative, and even industry professionals often say they would rather die than live in one.

Semi-private nursing home rooms are inhumane. The standard practice of placing two, three, or even four people in a room is outdated and unacceptable. Small-house models like Green House have addressed this issue, but widespread adoption has been slow due to myths about financial feasibility.

Age-in-place programs need better messaging. Many Continuing Care at Home (CCaH) programs market themselves like long-term care insurance, which is a turnoff to consumers. Instead, they should emphasize their ability to keep people out of nursing homes.

The nonprofit senior living sector is losing ground to for-profit operators. If nonprofit organizations don’t adapt, they risk becoming irrelevant as for-profit providers scale faster and respond more aggressively to market demands.

The industry underutilizes data. Senior living communities could benefit from predictive modeling to anticipate residents’ needs, yet the sector remains far behind in leveraging data for proactive decision-making.

QUOTES

“Most people fell into these occupations. And once they started working in them, they discovered that they loved them.”  (Dr. Stone) 

“If we don’t invest in people, we are not going to get to the quality outcomes that we talk about.”  (Dr. Stone) 

“The best recruitment strategy is to retain, because the more that you retain your staff, the less you have to recruit.”  (Dr. Stone) 

“Technology hasn’t yet had a meaningful impact on frontline workforce challenges. We need to be more intentional about how we use it to support, not replace, the people doing the work.”  (Dr. Stone) 

“Taking the keys away from an older adult is one of the most disempowering things you can do. If self-driving cars can provide mobility while ensuring safety, I’m all for it.”  (Dr. Stone) 

“We’ve made strides in gerontology, but ageism and structural inequities still make it hard to attract people to the field.”  (Dr. Stone) 

“We are a muddling-through society. We inch forward incrementally, but we do eventually get there.”  (Dr. Stone) 

“We still have most people who think that Medicare covers long-term care. After 50 years in this field, that misconception still persists.”  (Dr. Stone) 

“I believe in public-private partnerships. The federal government should play a role in financing long-term care, but we also need private sector innovation.”  (Dr. Stone) 

“I have learned that change takes a long time and that it is more of a journey than a destination.”  (Dr. Stone) 

“On my best days, I remind myself: keep your eye on the prize. It’s easy to get discouraged, but progress is always happening, even if slowly.”  (Dr. Stone) 

NOTES

Dr. Robyn Stone is a nationally recognized expert in aging policy and long-term care. As Senior Vice President of Research at LeadingAge and Co-Director of the LeadingAge LTSS Center, she has dedicated her career to improving services, research, and policy that support older adults, particularly those with lower incomes.

LeadingAge is a nonprofit organization dedicated to advancing policies, practices, and research that support aging services. Through the LTSS Center, LeadingAge bridges the gap between policy, research, and real-world implementation to improve care quality, workforce development, and access to affordable housing for older adults.

Dr. Stone has spent 50 years in the field of aging, working in federal policy, nonprofit leadership, and research. She served in the Clinton administration’s health care reform task force and was part of the Pepper Commission, which explored long-term care financing solutions in 1989.

Her expertise spans workforce challenges, age-friendly communities, policy reform, and applied research to improve care models for older adults.

Aging services is often an “accidental career,” but once people enter the field, they realize they love it. Dr. Stone has spent her career trying to make it a more intentional professional path rather than something people stumble into.

The long-term care workforce crisis is fueled by low wages, structural inequities, and a lack of investment. Many direct-care workers are underpaid and undervalued, despite making up 60-80% of hands-on care. Increasing wages, training, and career pathways is critical to retention.

Technology in aging services hasn’t yet had a major impact on workforce issues. While electronic health records and digital tools help, most technology hasn’t reached frontline caregivers. The real opportunity is designing tech that supports workers rather than replacing them.

Many people still believe Medicare covers long-term care—when it doesn’t. Public understanding of long-term services and supports (LTSS) remains poor, leaving families unprepared. Dr. Stone advocates for better consumer education and policies that make care more affordable.

Self-driving cars could be a game-changer for older adults. Losing the ability to drive is disempowering, and if autonomous vehicles can restore independence while ensuring safety, they could be transformational for aging populations.

The U.S. is still catching up to other countries in how it plans for aging populations. Countries like Singapore and Denmark integrate aging into urban planning, creating built environments that support aging in place. The U.S. has opportunities to learn from these models.

COVID revealed the essential role of long-term care workers but hasn’t led to enough lasting change. While pandemic funding led to temporary workforce investments, sustaining higher wages and better career paths will require long-term policy shifts.

Change in aging policy takes time—but it happens. Dr. Stone sees progress in workforce recognition, gerontology as a field, and culture change in residential care. While she calls herself a “pessimistic optimist,” she believes incremental change leads to lasting impact.

QUOTES

“The whole concept of anti-aging is somewhat misguided because aging is a biological process. It’s a bit like anti-breathing where we suddenly decided that it’s inconvenient to have to take 20 breaths a minute.” (Dr. Katz)

“Longevity is a laudable goal. A bounty of years and life. Vitality is perhaps an even more laudable goal. A bounty of life and years.” (Dr. Katz) 

“If we buy into the value proposition of anti-aging, it sort of invites a morbid fear of our own mortality.” (Dr. Katz) 

“There comes a day when you’re on the other side of the summit and starting to descend and you’ll never be better than you ever were before by some physical measure. But you know things that you didn’t know back then. You’ve experienced things.” (Dr. Katz)

“Experience comes with the passage of time, as does aging.” (Dr. Katz)

“I’m not going to be anti-aging. I want to embrace aging because it is imparting gifts on me. It exacts a toll, but it also imparts gifts. That give and take reorients us.” (Dr. Katz) 

“Imagine if our society had a whole slew of periodicals and magazines that are all about the reflections, storytelling, wisdom and life experience of older people. And we celebrate that the same way that we do the beauty of young actors and actresses.” (Dr. Katz) 

“Diet quality, measured objectively, is the single leading predictor in the United States today from all causes. In other words, if you could fix just one thing to decrease the likelihood that you’re going to die prematurely, it would be your diet quality.” (Dr. Katz) 

“The simple reality is, we’re not a very healthy nation. We have systematically neglected the fundamentals of health. Diet quality in the U.S. is poor – it’s the single leading predictor of death from all causes – we’re nearly as physically active as we should be. We have too much exposure to toxic substances. We don’t get enough sleep. We’re stressed out and we’re not good at mitigating stress and the internet and social media have interfered with our social connections with other people.” (Dr. Katz) 

“We can control ship and sail. We can be masterful captains of the ship of our medical destiny but we’ll never control wind and wave.” (Dr. Katz) 

“If we hope to deemphasize the role of big pharma in what gets marketed to elders, we need healthier elders. And in order to have healthier elders we need a healthier us. All of us. Because health begins early in life.” (Dr. Katz) 

NOTES

Dr. David Katz is a globally recognized expert in nutrition, wellness, and longevity. As the Founding Director of the Yale Prevention Research Center, he has dedicated his career to advancing lifestyle medicine and disease prevention. 

The Yale Prevention Research Center is dedicated to advancing disease prevention and public health through innovative research and community-based interventions. 

A prolific author and passionate advocate for public health, Dr. Katz has written extensively on how diet and lifestyle impact long-term well-being—including his thought-provoking article, “Rage at Aging.”

Dr. Katz’s work challenges conventional thinking about aging, urging people to prioritize health span over life span. With deep expertise and bold insights, Dr. Katz continues to shape the conversation on living better, longer. 

Dr. Katz discussed the challenge of getting older as it pertains to technology and other advancements, saying “Instead of being venerated in old age for our wisdom and experience, we’ll look around and say ‘What the hell is going on here?’”

QUOTES

“Another principle that’s near and dear to my heart is the idea of promoting intergenerational connections. A college campus is uniquely positioned to connect generations around a shared love of learning.” (Lindsey)

“Universities should recognize a range of educational needs for older learners.” (Lindsey)

“21st century universities are highly technology enabled. How do we think about supporting people with technology barriers. We need to think about how to close that digital divide for learners of all ages.” (Lindsey) 

“There is no boundary or barrier between the (retirement) community and the campus community. We have students in the (retirement community) building all the time. We want that. We also have residents on the (college) campus all the time. These are the kinds of organic exposures and interactions that I feel are the most powerful part of this model.” (Lindsey) 

“Older people have forgotten what it’s like to be young but also young people have not developed the skills to project their future selves, which is so important. It means that you can make decisions now that will benefit the future version of you.” (Lindsey) 

“So many folks at 75 no longer identify with their careers. They no longer want to say ‘I’m a retired physician or a retired real estate broker’ they want to say ‘I’m a learner, I’m a mentor, I’m whatever it is I’m doing now.’ They have value now and post career identity and I think that’s what that student ID card represents.” (Lindsey) 

“We bring the university to (the community residents). You can really say that you get what you need in terms of care as you age but also you get what you want in terms of learning and enrichment and intellectual stimulation.” (Lindsey) 

NOTES

Lindsey is on the Executive Council of the Age Friendly University Global Network and is Senior Director of Lifelong University Engagement at Mirabella at Arizona State University. 

Lindsey works at the intersection of higher education and senior living, creating opportunities for senior living residents to fully immerse themselves in campus life at Arizona State University. With a background spanning the Peace Corps, aging services, and higher education, Lindsey is redefining what it means to age with purpose. 

Mirabella at Arizona State University is a luxury retirement community blending vibrant senior living with lifelong learning. Located on ASU’s Tempe campus, it offers residents cultural events, educational opportunities, and upscale amenities, fostering intergenerational connections.

Mirabella as ASU is the first certified university-based retirement community in the nation. It’s a 20-story Life Plan Community located on ASU’s campus, opened in December 2020. The community includes 238 independent living units, 17 assisted living units, 20 memory care units and 21 skilled nursing units.

Merging higher education with senior living might seem unusual, but this fusion can disrupt and redefine both fields. The concept of a university-based retirement community exemplifies how bringing together two distinct industries can lead to groundbreaking innovations and new possibilities.

While in grad school at ASU, Lindsey noticed her classmates accumulating significant debt due to high housing costs. This led her to start a home-sharing agency in Phoenix to match older homeowners with college students, allowing students to rent a room in exchange for household chores. 

University-based retirement communities are gaining popularity, and there are compelling reasons for this trend. The baby boomer generation, being the most educated retiree cohort ever, has a strong nostalgia for its college years. 

Quotes

“I was really surprised to learn how large a population solo agers are. What was most valuable in terms of the advice for me is that solo agers face the same issues that everybody else faces.” (Diane) 

“Solo agers have to approach planning with an extra layer of intentionality and urgency.” (Diane)

“Most of us just assume our spouses or kids will step in. Solo agers can’t assume.” (Diane) 

“Aging in place is tough. It can be lonely, it can be expensive if you’re on your own. You might think about making a change in where you live. Maybe an adult community.” (Diane) 

“The classic mistake that solo agers make in choosing someone as their healthcare proxy or power of attorney is they choose a peer. Someone their own age. […] The ideal person is someone who might be a generation younger.” (Diane) 

“The number one regret people have when it comes to their retirement is not starting to save sooner and not starting to save enough.” (Diane) 

“Fidelity estimates that the average person will need $165,000 to cover healthcare costs in retirement.” (Diane) 

“Maybe you’re not working full time, but you’re working part time. Even if you work half the time that you used to or a quarter of the time at something that is easier to do healthwise […] it can help you delay taking Social Security and it can help delay tapping into your savings.” (Diane) 

Notes

Diane is an award winning journalist, a well-traveled speaker and an author with an expertise in personal finance and financial wellness. She’s a former editor-in-chief of Money Magazine and a former deputy editor of Newsweek. 

She recently wrote an article for the New York Times about solo agers titled “Retiring Solo: How to plan when you’re on your own”. 

Diane’s advice for solo agers is start with your existing network and work outwards. She also recommends looking for ways to follow your interests – movies, photography, books – where you might meet people of different ages and backgrounds. She also recommends looking to neighbors to build relationships and community. 

Sitting down with a financial advisor, even for a one-time session, can be incredibly helpful for solo agers or anyone hoping to gain some financial clarity when it comes to retirement. 

Solo aging can have upsides, too. Diane notes an AARP survey in which respondents replied that being a solo ager gives you independence, a feeling of satisfaction, happiness and freedom. 

Diane delivered a keynote address at an AARP event titled  “WTF! (What the Financial!): A Financial Empowerment Roadmap.” In that keynote address, she talked about financial longevity and retirement. 

Diane advises that if you are younger than 65 and you’re thinking of retirement, you might think again. Covering healthcare costs before you quality for Medicare is very expensive. 

Diane is an advocate of part time work to help with finances in retirement. She’s cautious about full-time work as a catch-all for financial stability. Instead you suggested that retirees “keep a hand in the workforce—not your whole body.”

Transcript

00:00:02.48

VARSITY

Hello and welcome to another episode of Varsity’s Roundtable Talk. Today’s guest is Diane Harris. Diane is an award-winning journalist, a well-traveled speaker, and an author with an expertise in personal finance and financial wellness. She’s a former editor-in-chief of Money Magazine and a former deputy editor of Newsweek. And finally, she’s a regular contributor to the New York Times. Diane, thank you so much for joining us today.

 

00:00:25.63

Diane Harris

I’m delighted to be here, Derek. Thank you for having me.

 

00:00:28.29

VARSITY

Absolutely. Well, our interview today is gonna tackle two topics that you’ve written and spoken about recently. Solo aging and financial security during retirement. And then there’s there’s a third topic at the end, but we’ll get to that later. We’re gonna start with solo aging. You wrote a terrific piece for the New York Times just in September of this year in 2024 called Going Solo, how to plan for retirement when you’re on your own.

 

00:00:55.95

VARSITY

Now, in that article, you talked with Dr. Sarah Zeff Geber, who coined the phrase solo aging, and who I’ve interviewed recently on this podcast, as well as Joy Laverde, who we’ve also worked with as a guest on our weekly roundtable discussions. And both are great resources. Now, in your solo aging art research, did any advice or strategies from Dr. Geber, Joy, or any other experts surprise you or stand out as particularly valuable?

 

00:01:23.50

Diane Harris

Yeah, you know, absolutely. It was a fascinating topic. I was really surprised to learn, you know, how large a population solo-agers are. And I’m glad that we’re getting the chance to talk about this. What was most Not surprising, but valuable in terms of the advice for me was that, you know, solo-agers face the same issues that everybody else faces as we age. You have to think about who is going to take care of you if something happens, who are your designees for health care and things like that.

 

00:02:08.46

Diane Harris

But you without a person who you can rely on to turn to, it’s the circumstances, different circumstances that mean different solutions. And so what experts stress to me is that solo-agers have to approach planning with an extra layer of intentionality and urgency. And that phrase really stuck with me. That’s what I think is the most valuable takeaway.

 

00:02:38.64

Diane Harris

It’s not that the issues are different. It’s that different circumstances may dictate different solutions, and that you have to approach the whole thing with an extra layer of urgency and intentionality.

 

00:02:52.98

Diane Harris

like Most of us just assume or spouses our or kids will step in. That’s not always right, but we assume it.

 

00:03:02.48

VARSITY

That’s exactly, that’s that’s a great point.

 

00:03:02.54

Diane Harris

So the wagers can’t assume.

 

00:03:05.51

VARSITY

And the other thing that I found to be fascinating was when I heard the term solo-ager or when I think of that, I think of truly an individual, someone who is is solo, whereas Dr. Geber in the conversations we had with her, she was really defining it as someone without children or without that natural support network.

 

00:03:24.00

VARSITY

So they may have a spouse, but they don’t have you know have children who,

 

00:03:24.45

Diane Harris

Yes.

 

00:03:29.34

VARSITY

you know in theory might you know provide that support, but we know that doesn’t always happen either.

 

00:03:33.44

Diane Harris

Right, right. I mean, i and I think that part of the value of this story for people who aren’t solo-agers is understanding that. Like this advice is relevant to everyone because some of the assumptions we make about who will take care of us don’t always turn out to be the case.

 

00:03:57.12

VARSITY

Great point. Great point. Now you discussed the importance, as you were just sharing, of having that trusted support network. Solo agents often don’t have the support. What are some ways to build that network that you have uncovered or or thought about?

 

00:04:11.81

Diane Harris

Yeah, so one of the things is to to start simply by looking at your existing network. Look at the community that you belong to from you know hobby groups that you might be involved in, places of worship, a community center, and look for ways and people whose relationships you might enhance or expand. Start with your existing network and kind of work outwards. So that’s one thing to start with.

 

00:04:47.76

Diane Harris

Another piece of advice that didn’t make it into the New York Times story that I that that i thought was great is to think about like often, who do we hang out with? We hang out with friends and they tend to be our same age. So their peers. Instead of hanging out with people by age, by you know by our peers, look for ways to follow your interests.

 

00:05:13.80

Diane Harris

If you’re a movie lover, an amateur photographer, you join a book club, whatever it is that you’re interested in doing, but do it by the activity where you may meet people of different ages and different backgrounds. So you have a more diverse group, a more diverse community, and then look to your neighbors, to the people you regularly interact with,

 

00:05:43.95

Diane Harris

The single most important thing, though, probably is where you live, is thinking intentionally, again, about where you live. Because that can create a community.

 

00:05:55.59

Diane Harris

if your you know People often say they want to age in place. But aging in place is tough.

 

00:06:01.88

VARSITY

Sure.

 

00:06:02.32

Diane Harris

It can be lonely. It can be expensive if you’re on your own and having You know, as you get older and it’s a little harder to do things, you have to hire people to do them for you. So you might really think about making a change in where you live to maybe it’s an adult community, you know, for people 55 and older, where you have a built-in community and lots of services often are available to you, a continuing care community.

 

00:06:30.72

Diane Harris

Joy Laverde, who you mentioned, big advocate of NORX,

 

00:06:33.69

VARSITY

Yep.

 

00:06:37.12

Diane Harris

naturally occurring retirement communities, where you might be in an apartment building that has people of all different ages and backgrounds and services that are available to seniors and community events, and you naturally build a network of people who look out for one another. So those are some of the ways to strengthen your community and your network.

 

00:07:03.47

VARSITY

That’s great. And you mentioned you know earlier and in in in your thoughts about enhancing your network. And I think that was a really interesting term. And it almost made me think, you know enhancing the relationships, I think that was maybe how you had had said it. And yeah relationships about the core is a two-way street, right? And I love the idea of going into some of your interest groups because then you are connecting on a much deeper level, perhaps.

 

00:07:30.67

Diane Harris

Yes.

 

00:07:31.08

VARSITY

it’s you know It’s not tethered by simply proximity, but it’s tethered by something that really has an equal exchange of intellect.

 

00:07:39.58

Diane Harris

Right. And it’s also, you know, I love the possibilities for intergenerational community.

 

00:07:49.52

VARSITY

Absolutely.

 

00:07:50.17

Diane Harris

It’s so helpful to both sides of that equation. You know, not just from the practical, okay, I’m looking for people who can help me out if something happens to me, but just for socialization and what you can learn from one another.

 

00:07:58.95

VARSITY

Right.

 

00:08:05.11

Diane Harris

like I’m someone who is, I’m not a solo ager.

 

00:08:06.19

VARSITY

Sure.

 

00:08:08.03

Diane Harris

I’m just your garden variety married with adult children ager.

 

00:08:12.38

VARSITY

sure

 

00:08:13.05

Diane Harris

But I’m lucky enough to have a community and a network that is truly intergenerational. And I think it’s a tremendous it’s just a tremendous benefit socially, professionally, and just in terms of keeping you vibrant and vital in our world.

 

00:08:35.60

VARSITY

That’s great. That’s great. Now, you know as we’re talking about this, many soloagers struggle with choosing someone to make medical or financial decisions for them.

 

00:08:42.75

Diane Harris

Yes.

 

00:08:44.29

VARSITY

What qualities do you think are most important when selecting these types of of relationships for yourself?

 

00:08:49.88

Diane Harris

Yeah, so experts really emphasized me. And it made sense, it’s kind of an an aha moment when once they said it to me that the classic mistake that soloagers make in choosing someone as their health care proxy or the power of attorney is to choose a peer, someone who is their own age, very often, I mean,

 

00:09:15.74

Diane Harris

people who are partnered will choose a spouse or if they have adult children they’ll choose an adult child. The most common choice for a solo-ager is a sibling and a sibling is likely to be you know within a few years of you and face the same challenges of aging as you do. So the ideal person is someone who might be a generation younger

 

00:09:44.09

VARSITY

that’s really smart

 

00:09:44.15

Diane Harris

someone who is mature enough to handle the responsibility and understanding of what you might be facing, but younger, so is not facing the same challenges, might be a niece or a nephew or a much younger cousin or the child of a cousin, you know, thinking along those lines.

 

00:10:05.36

Diane Harris

And then you really need to find someone

 

00:10:07.08

VARSITY

that’s really smart

 

00:10:10.55

Diane Harris

who is willing to do it, who is willing to take on the responsibility. Very often, if we can get ourselves to make the choice, we don’t do the second beat of that, which is talk to the person and make sure they’re on board because you don’t always know. And then you want to revisit.

 

00:10:32.53

Diane Harris

every couple of years because circumstances change, their circumstances do, your circumstances do, the person who made sense two years ago may not be the person who makes sense today.

 

00:10:35.12

VARSITY

That’s a great point.

 

00:10:43.90

Diane Harris

So those are some of the things you want to think about.

 

00:10:46.79

VARSITY

That’s a great point. And, you know, I know it gets, it’s probably a little touchy, but the vetting process, because you know, somebody as a friend or you know whatnot but to turn over such personal decisions to them like medical or financial. you know Any thoughts on that? I realize it’s very particular for each individual situation. but

 

00:11:09.79

Diane Harris

Well, I think, yeah, I know I think that’s a great, that’s a great question. And I think that, you know, one of the things that we as personal finance experts tell people all the time when they’re doing a will or you want to write down what you want to happen, what your wish list is for your care.

 

00:11:36.51

Diane Harris

but also personal things like, you know, how you want your pet taken care of for, you know, just, you know, the whole gamut of things. And so I think when you’re vetting someone,

 

00:11:49.11

Diane Harris

You want to have those thoughts in mind and you want to have that discussion like, this is what I want. Would you feel comfortable doing this? you know If you want them to run a second opinion by someone, you know here’s who I’d want you to talk to.

 

00:12:06.57

Diane Harris

Would you do that for me? You really have to kind of get, I don’t know if down and dirty is the right expression, but kind of, right?

 

00:12:12.03

VARSITY

Sure.

 

00:12:14.37

Diane Harris

like you really You have to be willing to go there And the payoff for going there is that you will feel so much more comfortable. And then you’ve set you can set it and forget it for a little bit of time.

 

00:12:29.56

VARSITY

Sure.

 

00:12:29.70

Diane Harris

And you have that peace of mind.

 

00:12:33.08

VARSITY

that’s yeah Those are excellent points, and my wife and I just revisited our will, and you know as we were doing that, realized how incredibly outdated it was you know when we did it, when our son was quite young.

 

00:12:42.57

Diane Harris

Yeah.

 

00:12:45.35

VARSITY

but So you know there are a lot of concerns and that we’ve been talking about that solo-agers have, and financial security is, of course, a big one. They don’t have the immediate family members to rely on for the financial support should immediate emergencies come along for long-term care.

 

00:12:56.48

Diane Harris

Yep.

 

00:13:00.55

VARSITY

Without that traditional family support, how can solo agers create a financial safety net?

 

00:13:05.48

Diane Harris

Yep.

 

00:13:05.50

VARSITY

I know that’s a major part of what you know do write about and have kind of studied over the years, if you will. But really to cover those financial you needs in the future or for emergencies, and how is that maybe different from what you know people who aren’t solo agers, what they might do?

 

00:13:24.24

Diane Harris

Yeah. Well, I think that it’s certainly true that it’s critical. And solo-agers do have particular challenges when it comes to money. They tend to have less in income because it’s one income versus verses two. And they tend to have less in savings. So they have fewer assets to work with.

 

00:13:48.49

Diane Harris

And that means, again, like you have to be extra special careful. It’s back to that intentionality and the urgency. So there are a couple of things that I would suggest.

 

00:13:58.52

Diane Harris

First of all, not having money for emergencies is the thing that causes the most anxiety in everyone.

 

00:14:08.29

VARSITY

Sean.

 

00:14:08.69

Diane Harris

Solo-ager, young person, like just across the board, research shows that the thing that gives us the most financial anxiety is the feeling that we’re one emergency away from financial disaster.

 

00:14:23.35

Diane Harris

so thing a plan for emergencies. It goes beyond, you know, the traditional advice of an emergency fund. It’s really thinking through, like, what are the what ifs? What could happen? Having a plan and a sense of control, like who you could turn to, if you had to move, you know, like, where would you go? Could you downsize? Like, going through the what ifs is as important as having an emergency fund because you want to have a sense of control.

 

00:14:52.74

Diane Harris

An emergency fund, just having some money set aside for emergencies, is critical. The way to do that, if you’re still working, you know open an account that’s dedicated to that, that says, my emergency fund. Because money that you have labeled for a specific purpose is money that you’re likely to not touch. And then automate from your paycheck You can do it through your bank, through your employer, just whether it’s $50 a week, $25 a week, a certain amount of money that goes into that account. And then the other thing you want to do is you don’t want to use it, but you want to have it available to you, lines of credit. If you own your own home, a home equity line of credit that you don’t tap, but it’s your emergency fund if you had to tap it. And a credit card.

 

00:15:45.81

Diane Harris

that you then put in the freezer in a block of ice you know and that you never use, but that it’s there for you if you need it. And just knowing what you would do, where you could turn, brings peace of mind. Oh, I’m sorry. One other thing that I just want to say is that sitting down for a one-time session with a financial advisor to go through all of that is another way of creating a safety net. And there are a lot of pro bono resources if you can’t afford it.

 

00:16:15.97

Diane Harris

Often your local area on aging, your local agency on aging can suggest pro bono planners who will do it, local senior center, AARP, so you can get free help.

 

00:16:31.80

VARSITY

Great. Good thoughts, good suggestions. And you know it is just the whole notion of sitting down and thinking through it so that if something does happen, when your mind is racing and you can’t focus, at least knowing where to start and having something, even if it was a year or two before that you jotted it down, just having that to start with, I think you know would be comforting for a lot of people.

 

00:16:47.81

Diane Harris

Yes.

 

00:16:56.15

Diane Harris

Yes.

 

00:17:02.23

VARSITY

and So you know when we’re talking about solo aging, we’re and we’ve been talking a lot about you know some of the negative or stressful aspects, in writing the article, were you able to uncover any benefits or positive things about being a solo ager?

 

00:17:16.32

Diane Harris

I am so glad you asked that question. Absolutely. In fact, there was an AARP study, I think it was last year, about solo aging. And they asked respondents for you know their feelings about being a solo ager. And the first three responses were all positive.

 

00:17:36.02

Diane Harris

it was you know surprising independence and feeling satisfied and happy with their lives. And the number one positive aspect was freedom.

 

00:17:47.83

Diane Harris

So you know there are benefits to not having to run what you want to do by somebody. If you want to travel, you can travel. you know Whatever your idea of an ideal retirement or just you know what you want to do as you grow older, you don’t have to compromise. You don’t have to get anybody’s permission. you know So there’s a great freedom in that. And I think that that’s a huge benefit.

 

00:18:16.45

Diane Harris

you know for solo agents.

 

00:18:19.26

VARSITY

Great point. Good. So now I’m curious, what are you looking forward to as you age?

 

00:18:25.55

Diane Harris

I am looking forward to sort of, you know I hate to be a cliche, I feel like I’m looking forward to the things you always hear people look forward to, but you know the most precious commodity to me is time.

 

00:18:39.31

VARSITY

Yep.

 

00:18:41.27

Diane Harris

So I am looking forward to, you know, I still work full time and full throttle full time. So I’m looking forward to slowing down a little bit. I’m looking forward to time to be more present for the people who I care about, to be able to be more in the moment to take walks and to, you know, like just all of that stuff just to take life a little at a little bit of a slower pace to be more present for the people who I care about, including myself.

 

00:19:20.89

Diane Harris

And to travel. I really do want to travel. And I haven’t I haven’t done a lot of that. So I feel a little bit like a cliche, but truly,

 

00:19:31.02

VARSITY

But hey, there’s a reason there’s a reason for that, right? And you know I mean, what are they?

 

00:19:33.27

Diane Harris

Yeah. And also I have a couple of passion projects that I, you know, so I have a, a movie, an idea for a movie that I’ve had since I left graduate school.

 

00:19:50.89

VARSITY

Interesting.

 

00:19:51.04

Diane Harris

So here’s an idea I’ve been nursing for more than 30 years, for more than 40 years., and I would love to be able to do a magazine article and see if I could get it done.

 

00:20:02.78

Diane Harris

If I could get someone to look at a treatment, it’s based on a true story. I’m surprised that nobody has picked it up. I think it has Clooney pit, then Affleck like that, that, that sort of thing all over it.

 

00:20:19.83

Diane Harris

So there’s one.

 

00:20:20.16

VARSITY

Very cool. That’s great. I can’t wait to see how that comes about. So shifting gears, you had done a keynote at a recent AARP event. And you spoke earlier this year in New York about financial longevity and retirement. And in this speech, you paused for some reassurance and a promise.

 

00:20:44.77

VARSITY

And you said that no matter where someone is in their financial journey, you can come up with strategies to make your money last your lifetime. So for those who may have begun saving later than ideal, what advice do you have to help them maximize their savings now?

 

00:21:01.21

Diane Harris

First of all, I really and truly believe that wherever you are, there are steps that you can take and I think it’s critical for people to understand that because the number one regret people have when it comes to their money in retirement is not starting to save sooner and not starting to save enough.

 

00:21:18.97

Diane Harris

And it’s important for people to realize, first of all, that everyone shares that, me too, even though I do this for an actual living. You know, I have, I often say, and I said it, I think in this, in this speech that believe me because I’ve done this for 40 years and I’m an actual expert, but also because I personally made every mistake there is to make when it comes to your money and I’m living proof you can bounce back.

 

00:21:44.50

Diane Harris

So that’s true when it comes to getting a late start on savings. If you’re still working, What you want to do right now is pump it up you know to use that old SNL sketch.

 

00:21:56.53

VARSITY

Sure.

 

00:21:57.37

Diane Harris

So ah you know whatever you can do right now, the first thing is if you’re working for a company that offers an employer-sponsored plan and it has a match and you are not contributing up to the match, like there is no excuse.

 

00:22:15.83

Diane Harris

You’ve got to do that right away. And one of the benefits of getting older is that it you often have to wait when you’re younger to vest, and people move companies a lot, and you might be afraid of layoffs.

 

00:22:29.49

Diane Harris

When you reach full retirement age, you’re automatically vested in those contributions. So even if you’ve been at that company for a month, you get the full match.

 

00:22:38.15

VARSITY

Interesting.

 

00:22:41.32

Diane Harris

So there’s nothing you have to worry about. you know It’s 100% return on your money, so do that. If you’re already doing that and you have the wherewithal to save more, really just pump it up to what you can. People 50 and older can contribute more than younger people. There are catch-up contributions. Starting next year, there’s going to be a special supersizing catch-up contribution for people between the ages of 60 and 63.

 

00:23:11.15

Diane Harris

So you can do even more. I mean, it gets up to crazy amounts of money, like over 30,000 for that 60 to 63. And you know my feeling is if you have enough to contribute that much, you probably are not that worried about but retirement savings. But the idea is to do as much as you can. And when you do it automatically, you often automatically adjust your budget so you don’t feel it. So that’s the that’s the first thing.

 

00:23:40.77

Diane Harris

I would also say you have to look for ways to reduce your expenses to create the possibility of saving.

 

00:23:40.88

VARSITY

That’s.

 

00:23:53.07

Diane Harris

And the number one thing that I would say in this regard, there are lots of smaller things that you can do. And I have done them and you can talk about them. But if you are someone who still has an active open branch of the bank of mom and dad for adult children, you’ve got to think about shutting that sucker down. I mean, again, this is something that I’ve done even, you know, against my own advice that your children you want to do right by them, you want to give them a good launch in life. But research shows that it really, really hurts people’s ability to save for retirement, to retire when they want to. So that’s the number one thing, is to start thinking about shutting down the bank of mom and dad.

 

00:24:44.23

VARSITY

That’s a great point. And you know it is just so, so you’re probably you’re right, something that nobody wants to.

 

00:24:47.17

Diane Harris

 

 

00:24:52.69

VARSITY

do They want to feel as if they’re being good parents. But at some point, you’re probably being a better parent by focusing on your own financial security so that your child doesn’t have to worry about you later in life.

 

00:25:03.44

Diane Harris

Yeah, absolutely. And also helping them towards it towards true independence. I mean, if if you want to reassure yourself that you’re actually doing the right thing as a parent, there it is. I mean, it’s part of our responsibility to help them truly launch and be able to do things on their own.

 

00:25:23.30

VARSITY

That’s great. That’s really smart. Thank you. So we know health care is a huge expense in retirement. How can retirees plan for health care costs and to avoid depleting their savings?

 

00:25:34.00

Diane Harris

Yeah, I mean, it’s it’s a huge thing in retirement fidelity estimates that that people will need 100 the average person will need $165,000 just to cover health care costs over the course of the retirement.

 

00:25:48.88

VARSITY

Wow.

 

00:25:50.14

Diane Harris

So it’s so it’s a big number. So that’s $315,000 if you’re, you know, as a couple. The first thing that I would say is if you are younger than 65 and you are thinking of retiring early, you might think again because those years before, you know, covering your health care costs, before you qualify for Medicare if you’re not working is really, really expensive. Nearly half of people who take Social Security early do so in order to pay for health care costs. So if you can do whatever you can do to bridge that, maybe you have access to retiree coverage through a former employer. Many people don’t. Or COBRA workplace coverage.

 

00:26:45.98

Diane Harris

But the you really want to try, if you can, to bridge yourself to 65. And when you are eligible for Medicare, people often opt for whatever the lowest premium option is when it comes to health insurance. And actually, you might be better off to pay a little bit more in premiums and get more coverage for your out-of-pocket costs. Of that $165,000, nearly half goes to deductibles, coinsurance, and copays. So if you can get health insurance, traditional Medicare plus a medica a really comprehensive Medigap policy like Plan G,

 

00:27:39.21

Diane Harris

or an advantage plan, but one that where the premiums are a little higher, but you’re paying less out of pocket for things like co-pays, it’s often worth the trade-off. So think about that when you’re when you’re thinking about health insurance coverage.

 

00:27:57.09

VARSITY

Yeah, that’s, you know, that, that is interesting. Just, you know, thinking about the, the deductibles and everything that goes along with it that I think people don’t often think about, but also to your point, we might think that, , you know, we can kick the can down the road, if you will, , uh, for some of those costs by getting the lowest cost right now, but you really should be looking at value, right? Not just simply the lowest cost.

 

00:28:24.57

Diane Harris

Well, the lowest cost what will be the lowest cost in the long run is really is really what I’m talking about. We often think about, well, what are we paying for this policy? And that’s what the we’re going for is the lowest cost. But if you’re going to have a lot in, and it’s unpredictable, right? like I’m a you know generally a very, very healthy person. And year after year, I have very little in the way of health care costs until this year. And I and i had a health emergency.

 

00:28:55.25

Diane Harris

If I had not had, you know, if I had gone for the lowest version, I, you know, I am of Medicare age and I have a Medicare policy and a Medigap policy plan G and after my $240 deductible.

 

00:29:10.20

Diane Harris

You know, I didn’t pay anything for the out-of-pocket costs. It was, you know, very expensive. Hospitals stay lots of doctors afterwards. I’m totally fine now.

 

00:29:20.26

VARSITY

Good, I’m glad to hear that.

 

00:29:20.95

Diane Harris

But you never know when that’s going to happen. And I would have been, you know, it would not have been the cheapest policy if I had just been going by what my pre my monthly premiums were.

 

00:29:33.13

VARSITY

That’s a great point. That’s a great point. You’d be in a probably very different financial situation now if you hadn’t made that decision.

 

00:29:36.98

Diane Harris

Yes. Yes. Very grateful.

 

00:29:40.57

VARSITY

So you know, you’re a financial journalist, obviously, as we’ve talked about, you’ve been reporting on retirement savings for many years. What are some of the biggest changes in saving strategies and attitudes that you have come across or that you’ve observed over the years?

 

00:29:55.41

Diane Harris

Yeah. Well, I think there are two huge shifts that have really changed the landscape for everyone. The first thing is, you know, is the shift in the responsibility for retirement savings to individuals from the employer. i mean For many, many years pensions were a thing. And outside of the public sector now, they’re really rare.

 

00:30:27.35

Diane Harris

And so truly the onus is on individuals to to come up with a strategy for what their income will be in retirement and that requires a totally different mindset.

 

00:30:42.92

Diane Harris

And along with that, because they’re you know people were not stepping up and and contributing to their 401ks and similar plans in the way that they need to, to replace pensions, there have been a lot of changes in the way those plans are being managed. Automation of savings and defaulting people into plans. And that’s an ongoing thing, because what we found is that that most plans now default people into the into the plan so they don’t sign up they have to opt out and that’s increased participation rates but they’re saving at too low a rate because they’re defaulted into something that’s not going to be able to sustain them in retirement so there’s a lot of shifts going on with that in in putting the responsibility

 

00:31:37.50

Diane Harris

for funding your retirement on the individual. So that’s one big shift. And then the second big shift that we’re right in the middle of now is just rethinking the very notion of retirement. you know It used to be you work, you work, you work, you work, and then you stopped and you retired. So there was it was very black and white. it was you know there was There was a working period and then you retired and then there was an end date.

 

00:32:04.68

Diane Harris

And now retirement is much more of a spectrum, a continuum. And a change that I think is quite wonderful and has a lot of potential for people. But it’s a different way of thinking about retirement that retirement doesn’t necessarily mean not working at all. So those are the two big shifts that I see.

 

00:32:29.68

VARSITY

you know Absolutely, and it was interesting, yesterday I was down in Baltimore doing some group discussions with older adults and you everybody in the group said that they were not planning on retiring, that the word retirement was a negative to them because of exactly what you’re saying. And yeah this was in a community setting and they they were really encouraging and suggesting that the community set up co-working stations and perhaps even have a a part-time administrative assistant that could work there and and really support that.

 

00:33:04.81

VARSITY

And another couple was looking at having two apartments adjacent to each other that they could actually take you know rent, if you will, and using one as a studio and a workspace, and the other as their living space.

 

00:33:19.86

VARSITY

So just interesting how this group was really, it was a very urban you know group, but really thinking about

 

00:33:24.14

Diane Harris

Yeah.

 

00:33:27.15

VARSITY

what was going to meet their lifestyle, not where can we retire.

 

00:33:29.00

Diane Harris

Mm hmm. I love that. I love the idea of these of of these communities having co working stations and the idea of an administrative assistance. I think that’s so cool. I love that.

 

00:33:44.73

VARSITY

Yeah, it’s interesting. and you know Speaking of working longer, your pardon me, you were cautious about full-time work as a catch-all for financial stability. you know Instead, you suggested that retirees keep a hand in the workforce, not your whole body. I love that that phrase. Talk about that strategy.

 

00:34:01.03

Diane Harris

Sure. So I have to tell you that it is a pet peeve of mine when people suggest experts or government officials.

 

00:34:11.71

Diane Harris

And that’s people of both parties. like This is a nonpartisan issue.

 

00:34:17.09

VARSITY

Mm hmm, sure.

 

00:34:18.94

Diane Harris

People constantly suggest that just working longer is the solution to people not having enough money for retirement or people like to call it a retirement crisis. I do not. I don’t think we’re in crisis. There are things we need to do but you know people figure it out and telling them that they’re in crisis does not does not help. So the reason that I can’t stand it even though it’s absolutely true that working longer can really help your financial situation. that you know you know Even just a couple of years, extending it by a couple of years, can give you much more money in retirement, both because it delays your collecting of social security, it delays you having to tap savings. So theoretically, it’s a good idea, but come on, let’s live in the real world.

 

00:35:11.24

Diane Harris

And in the real world, hello ageism, you know, people often want to work but can’t work.

 

00:35:18.07

VARSITY

Mm hmm.

 

00:35:18.72

Diane Harris

Also, hello health care issues. We get older and, you know, the reason that a lot of people um retire earlier than they expect to are either because they were laid off or they have health issues. So it’s not always within our control to simply work longer. And then again, you know not every everyone, especially people who have been you know look really working like crazy, want to work until they’re 70. Maybe you want to slow down some. So you take the theoretical positives

 

00:35:54.94

Diane Harris

um And maybe you’re not working full-time, but you work part-time. Even if you work half the time you used to, or a quarter of the time, at something that may be easier to do health-wise, may be easier to do in terms of ageism because you’re a consultant, you’re not on staff, you’re not taking a staff position.

 

00:36:18.07

Diane Harris

You’re not earning the same big salary that may make you unattractive to employers. But it has many of the same benefits. you know It can help you delay taking Social Security. It can help you delay tapping into your savings or at least tapping as much of your savings. And it keeps you, from a social standpoint,

 

00:36:42.83

Diane Harris

engaged and again, you know, like in the world. So it helps with some of the loneliness and finding my purpose and meaning in retirement.

 

00:36:51.78

VARSITY

Sure.

 

00:36:52.28

Diane Harris

So I think it’s an elegant solution.

 

00:36:54.53

VARSITY

All the quality of life sorts of things that we’re all striving for.

 

00:36:56.46

Diane Harris

Yeah, yes, exactly.

 

00:36:58.80

VARSITY

Now, I’m curious. You mentioned ageism a couple of times. And over your career, you know you’ve been studying this population as it relates to financial, and I’m sure other you know several other topics.

 

00:37:09.90

VARSITY

But talk a little about ageism. Is it with the aging population? We’ve all seen the studies with the boomers, you know now well over 65 in a lot of instances.

 

00:37:21.47

VARSITY

Is ageism becoming a bigger issue? Are we somehow you know coping with it or tackling it? Or is it just something that we’ll always be?

 

00:37:34.60

Diane Harris

well the realist in me and might say it will always be the optimist in me, and that is two thirds of me. So more than half hopes that that that that’s not the case. I think that we are redefining, as we’ve talked about, you know in and as we redefine what retirement means, I think that will help

 

00:38:07.32

Diane Harris

employers and other people see that older workers are still really, really important in terms of expertise and and what they bring to the table. I don’t think ageism is going away. I think it is, I think it permeates the workplace. I think it is not talked about. I think it’s hidden through, you know, employers saying they’re just getting rid of in terms of layoffs, their highest salaried employees, I think it’s still there. I think that there are all sorts of studies, and I wish people would pay attention to them, of the higher productivity of intergenerational of an intergenerational workforce. So if I’m a big believer in appealing not to

 

00:39:02.57

Diane Harris

someone’s innate humanity, but rather to the bottom line, because that’s what businesses are about.

 

00:39:06.90

VARSITY

Sure.

 

00:39:08.94

Diane Harris

And so you know the research actually shows if you have workers of different ages, that is a more productive team that contributes more to the bottom line and it makes sense because you have older workers who are able to teach and mentor and who bring who bring deep expertise to the to the enterprise and you have younger workers who may bring a certain pace and energy and being more on the cutting edge of technology. I don’t want to do the slam against older people

 

00:39:47.76

Diane Harris

that we’re not technologically savvy, but you know, come on, we’re not as a group technologically savvy is right.

 

00:39:51.91

VARSITY

Sure, not digital natives.

 

00:39:55.78

Diane Harris

So there’s so much that you can learn to and enhance with each other. So I wish that there was more attention to the bottom line benefits. of having that workforce, but I don’t think that that’s the case. And I think that from a practical standpoint, thinking about how you can, you know, if you want to continue working, how you can continue to do that. It might not be as a staff member if you’re laid off. Other ways to contribute and keep your career vibrant. um It behooves older people to think about that from a practical standpoint.

 

00:40:35.11

VARSITY

That’s great. That’s great. Thank you. Well, now I’d like to shift and talk a little bit about something that I pay close attention to. And I certainly know a lot of people out there do as well. And that’s the slow but steady disappearance of printed magazines. And you know I still love getting i love getting the New York Times. We subscribe and get it on Sundays. And yeah there’s something tactile about having the printed

 

00:41:00.17

Diane Harris

Yeah.

 

00:41:00.22

VARSITY

piece, the you know the printed periodical coming in. you know and As we said at the beginning of our discussion, you were the deputy editor of Newsweek from 2020 to 23.

 

00:41:12.26

VARSITY

Now Newsweek had printed its last issue and shifted to digital only in 2012, if I’m not mistaken. then return to print again in 2014. You’re a part of the team tasked with reinventing Newsweek for the digital age. What were some of the biggest challenges you faced when reinventing Newsweek as a digital-focused publication?

 

00:41:31.59

Diane Harris

Yeah, and I will add to that that part of my, a big part of my responsibility at Newsweek was running the print magazine.

 

00:41:37.94

VARSITY

OK.

 

00:41:38.81

Diane Harris

You know, so it was a particular challenge there. So I think that, you know, in terms of reinventing for the digital age, you have to think about how do you maintain quality journalism when there is just a voracious appetite for content on the web, right? So one of the challenges, if what you need to do is just churn out lots and lots and lots of stories to attract your audience, which was the first wave strategy of big media companies

 

00:42:27.72

Diane Harris

turning to the web was just thinking we have to get all this traffic and we have to do it by publishing many, many, many more stories a day. But when you do that, quality often suffers.

 

00:42:38.95

VARSITY

Sure.

 

00:42:39.48

Diane Harris

And so the tension between publishing many more stories a day and figuring out how to maintain quality or at least maintain quality in in a portion of the enterprise I think was one of the great challenges and that that ah that media brands are still looking for. And then the second big challenge of a digital first publication.

 

00:43:11.26

Diane Harris

I almost hate that phrase these days, I have to say, because we’re all it’s all digital.

 

00:43:15.94

VARSITY

Right.

 

00:43:16.26

Diane Harris

It’s not digital first anymore. It’s just digital. And there may be a print component. And I’m a big believer in having a print component for brands where it makes sense. Newsweek is one of them.

 

00:43:28.19

Diane Harris

um But I think that the business model changed completely. And so media brands were used to relying primarily on either advertising income or subscriptions.

 

00:43:45.20

Diane Harris

to fund the enterprise and that’s no longer viable like it’s no longer viable to rely on either one or the other or even just those two you have to have you know a diversified way of generating revenue and if you’re good at it you have to have a diversified way of generating revenue that doesn’t interfere with journalistic integrity.

 

00:44:12.32

Diane Harris

And that has been the great the great challenge for not just Newsweek, but every large legacy media brand and digital upstarts.

 

00:44:13.63

VARSITY

That’s a great point.

 

00:44:24.78

VARSITY

Sure. Lots of sponsorship opportunities, but you want to make sure that the integrity of the journalism is still there.

 

00:44:31.72

Diane Harris

Yes, well, so an example is there are lots of media properties that that have some sort of relationship with retailers and high quality ones. like Let’s take the highest quality one, the New York Times, in my opinion.

 

00:44:53.65

Diane Harris

Has you know a brand within the larger brand called wire cutter which is a consumer product. Research and recommendation site and there they do a terrific job I think it’s really high quality I love wire cutter.

 

00:45:10.11

Diane Harris

But part of the strategy is to get and, and you know, there’s, and it’s fully disclosed that you get a, you know, a commission, basically, you know, for any time somebody purchases through that. So, there’s nothing wrong with the quality of the recommendations, they’re not recommending things just because they have a relationship with them.

 

00:45:31.83

Diane Harris

But what they are doing, and CNN does it, and Newsweek does it, and Forbes, you know, everybody is doing it these days, is that they there’s a barrage of emails and newsletters and exhortations to buy, buy, buy, buy. And that is not in readers or consumers’ best interests. And so that’s problematic, let alone the lesser quality sites that may be recommending things.

 

00:45:59.59

Diane Harris

because they have a relationship with the retailer. i don’t want to you know like Both things go on. The highest quality ones don’t do that.

 

00:46:04.19

VARSITY

Sure.

 

00:46:05.89

Diane Harris

I mean, they don’t. But it’s problematic. It’s very tangled.

 

00:46:12.61

VARSITY

Sure.

 

00:46:12.72

Diane Harris

And I think that’s still in the process of being sorted out.

 

00:46:15.78

VARSITY

It is interesting because obviously, you know, whether we use the term digital first or what have you, when you’ve got commerce happening online and the information being presented online, it does really blur the channel.

 

00:46:28.99

VARSITY

So it it becomes one and the same.

 

00:46:29.63

Diane Harris

Yeah, yeah, I completely agree with that. And it’s, it’s something that we just really as an industry media has to sort out. um Because, you know, maybe I’m a little too Pollyanna ish about this, but I really believe that, that at its core, you have to have journalistic integrity.

 

00:46:57.03

Diane Harris

And that that will bring readers, that will bring you know that will bring what you want to happen to the bottom line. But you have to do it with integrity and care for your readers.

 

00:47:10.34

VARSITY

That’s great. Now, do you see a day when the printed media disappears entirely?

 

00:47:16.95

Diane Harris

Again, I don’t think I’m being Pollyanna here, but I don’t. I definitely think that that just as we’ve already seen, although I think i think a lot of the damage has already been done, maybe damage isn’t the word that other people would use, but sort of to me, I mean, we definitely will see less imprint, but just as you said, and kind of just the same that has happened with books,

 

00:47:52.66

Diane Harris

You know, people like the tactile sensation of being able to hold and you see, you read in a different way. So I think that print will stay around, but it’s often for a different purpose. Like you, I’m a New York Times subscriber, and Monday through Saturday, I’m all digital. And Sunday, I’m all about print. And what’s different there? because It’s because I’m reading for a different purpose.

 

00:48:21.51

Diane Harris

Monday through Friday, I’m reading for information.

 

00:48:22.72

VARSITY

Yep.

 

00:48:25.68

Diane Harris

I want the news. I want what’s going on. On the weekend, I’m reading more for pleasure and my personal interest. And when you do that, I think you want a different experience.

 

00:48:34.94

VARSITY

That’s a great point.

 

00:48:38.22

Diane Harris

And I think that happens with magazines. It happens with books. You see, I have, you know, I read all the time on my Kindle, but when I go to the beach or when I’m relaxing in my backyard and reading a book on the patio,

 

00:48:51.72

Diane Harris

I like to hold a physical book in my hand. It’s just a different, more pleasurable experience.

 

00:48:54.94

VARSITY

That’s great.

 

00:48:57.05

Diane Harris

And I think that’ll happen, that that that’s the fate of media. And I also think that it will stay around because it’s one of the reasons that Newsweek not only brought back print, but during my tenure, actually added issues to to to the number that we put out.

 

00:49:17.40

Diane Harris

and You have to, you know, media companies have to think about what is the value added of having something in print. And besides sort of the experience that we’ve just talked about, it is the kinds of sources and experts you can attract.

 

00:49:33.09

VARSITY

Yep.

 

00:49:33.15

Diane Harris

People, it still means something to people to be on the cover of Newsweek. Can’t tell you the number of people, well, but could I be on the cover? You know, we wouldn’t have had a cover story.

 

00:49:43.85

Diane Harris

We were the only magazine to have Prince Charles write for us. And he wouldn’t have done that if we hadn’t been able to, well, for a lot of reasons, but if we hadn’t put him on the cover.

 

00:49:53.32

VARSITY

Sure.

 

00:49:55.37

Diane Harris

Same with Dolly Parton. You know, people, that that means something. We’re world leaders. So I think that there is an authority conferred by print that will not go out of style and value that a print product can bring.

 

00:50:14.16

Diane Harris

And and i am I hope it stays around.

 

00:50:17.41

VARSITY

Well, it is interesting to think about how life has changed. I mean, if you think about even in music, everybody had you know sounded the death knell for physical media. And yeah there’s been a resurgence vinyl over the last 10, 15 years, something like that.

 

00:50:32.56

Diane Harris

Yes.

 

00:50:32.92

VARSITY

And it’s it’s really remarkable.

 

00:50:35.04

Diane Harris

Yeah. And I love that blend, you know,  it’s I love that blend. And I just think that we have to define what is the value of whatever the platform or the medium is and under understand that they’re different. When we were looking to print and digital journalism to do exactly the same thing, maybe that was not the right way to think about it. Like what can print do for you and for your readers that you

 

00:51:08.06

Diane Harris

can’t do digitally or that would be enhanced by having a print product. And I think that that is the same thing when it comes to books and end with music too, that they should not be doing this same thing. and There’s overlap, there’s huge overlap, but long-form journalism, often as it’s a better read in in print.

 

00:51:32.66

Diane Harris

or it’s enhanced by having a print component. So I think people have to think about that.

 

00:51:38.13

VARSITY

Sure. now Now these shifts, what what’s the impact on journalism? We’ve talked about that a little bit and you shared some thoughts. Has the transition to digital changed the way stories are researched, written or edited?

 

00:51:50.20

Diane Harris

Yeah, you know, I, i they definitely have. And I think that some of the changes, more of the changes in my mind uh having been around for a while or or not good ones but there are some things that are good as well so i’m going to start with the good ones because you rarely hear that and as a journalist and especially one now who i’ve gone back and forth between editing and managing and writing my entire career and i’m in a phase where i’m doing

 

00:52:11.22

VARSITY

Mm hmm.

 

00:52:25.67

Diane Harris

probably 50-50. But in the writing portion of things, the amount of research and data and access to sources that the digital world has unveiled is phenomenal.

 

00:52:44.08

Diane Harris

what would take me What would have taken me so long early in my career to identify sources, to get their research, to read it, to figure all of that out is instantaneous. It’s just you know phenomenal in a really, really good way. And you can find better sources, people who are better suited,

 

00:53:09.06

Diane Harris

you can find the data, you can look at the trends, it’s it enhances the stories by, you know, multiple factors. So I think that that’s great. I think that we talked about this voracious appetite for content and the need to post many, many, many stories has made the reporting thinner has you know fewer sources, fewer you know whole stories written just by background research or by talking to somebody via email. Not the same thing as deeply reporting and interviewing someone and talking to them.

 

00:54:01.32

Diane Harris

not the ability to spend time with the writing on the craft of what we do. It’s not just great reporting that makes a great story. It’s great writing.

 

00:54:10.61

VARSITY

Sure.

 

00:54:10.99

Diane Harris

And so there’s just not time for that. And by the same token, there’s not time for the same amount of editing. So there are more mistakes. There’s more misinformation.

 

00:54:22.92

VARSITY

So as a journalist, I’m sorry go ahead.

 

00:54:23.18

Diane Harris

And yeah, I’m just like so that is sad for me.

 

00:54:28.76

VARSITY

Yeah, I was just going to ask and sort of interrupt but how in, you know, with all of the resources online and AI and everything else, how are you sure.

 

00:54:41.42

VARSITY

that the background, obviously if you’re talking to somebody, that’s firsthand, but how can you be sure that the content that you’re reviewing is legitimate or something that you can trust as a reporter?

 

00:54:53.46

Diane Harris

Yeah, well, going to trustworthy sources. So like if you’re if you’re looking for research on a particular topic and studies and you know the academic institution and where the researcher has come from, you really have to pay attention to the quality of your sources and the institutions that are providing the data.

 

00:55:17.51

VARSITY

Sir.

 

00:55:18.14

Diane Harris

so And think about, because sometimes we are talking to sources who have a bias, and we’re talking to them because of that bias. like It’s not always like because they have a particular perspective. But as a reporter, you really have to be aware of that and under understand what might cause them to say or to have the perspective that they have and take that into account. You really have to do more vetting of your experts and your source materials then than you did a decade ago.

 

00:55:59.22

VARSITY

Great point, great point, thank you for that. So we’ve talked about some heavy things today, and I wanna have a little fun before we wrap up our discussion. I’m gonna name some iconic magazines, and you tell me if you think it’s still in print.

 

00:56:12.04

Diane Harris

Oh, this is a scary quiz for journalists. Watch me fall flat on my face here.

 

00:56:16.84

VARSITY

Well, what we we’re not out to expose anything, but just curious to see.

 

00:56:18.18

Diane Harris

That’s okay. That’s okay, yeah.

 

00:56:22.19

VARSITY

So 17, 17 magazine.

 

00:56:24.79

Diane Harris

Oh my goodness, 17.

 

00:56:29.16

Diane Harris

17, digital only.

 

00:56:31.34

VARSITY

You’re right, it’s not in print. It shifted in 2019 to be digital only. How about Life magazine?

 

00:56:37.92

Diane Harris

Oh, Kaput, no, yeah.

 

00:56:40.80

VARSITY

Yep, it was not it’s not in print. It shifted in 2000 and again in 2007, made a comeback in 2004 as a printed weekend supplement, but stopped printing again in 2007.

 

00:56:43.50

Diane Harris

Yeah.

 

00:56:49.15

Diane Harris

Right.

 

00:56:51.57

VARSITY

Good, two for two.

 

00:56:51.99

Diane Harris

Yes.

 

00:56:53.49

VARSITY

Rolling Stone.

 

00:56:55.28

Diane Harris

Print.

 

00:56:55.99

VARSITY

Yep, yes, still in print. Reader’s Digest.

 

00:56:58.85

Diane Harris

Print.

 

00:57:00.34

VARSITY

You got it. Popular science.

 

00:57:03.51

Diane Harris

Oh, my goodness, popular science. Okay, that’s Hearst, right?, hmm, popular science. I’m going to say print.

 

00:57:14.85

Diane Harris

No.

 

00:57:14.82

VARSITY

Not in print, it shifted in 2021, but close.

 

00:57:17.35

Diane Harris

Okay.

 

00:57:18.67

VARSITY

Okay, and then last one, one that actually my parents started subscribing to before I was born, and we have them all in our house, National Geographic.

 

00:57:29.65

Diane Harris

Oh, wow. National Geographic. I should know this. I’m going to say not in print.

 

00:57:40.51

VARSITY

It is still in print, however, they stopped printing for newsstands just this last year and they’re only doing print for subscribers so it’s kind of

 

00:57:41.72

Diane Harris

Oh, good.

 

00:57:50.30

Diane Harris

Oh, that’s interesting, because that’s what I was thinking about. you know like It’s funny, when you when you mention that, what I what what i default to is a mental picture of a newsstand.

 

00:57:59.97

VARSITY

Yeah, absolutely. So you’re you’re you’re right in that regard.

 

00:58:03.23

Diane Harris

So I get half a point.

 

00:58:04.38

VARSITY

i’ve heard I saw the headline earlier this year that, yep, half a point. I saw a headline earlier this year that they were stopping printing. And you know my heart stopped for a moment, and then realized it was only for the the the newsstands.

 

00:58:15.15

Diane Harris

Yeah.

 

00:58:17.30

VARSITY

So.

 

00:58:17.78

Diane Harris

Well, and that’s, you know, I mean, there’s an example, and actually it’s true for life to me, beautiful photographs seen in print, like, I mean, certainly digitally they could, there the you know, and it especially in an immersive template, can be beautiful, you know, are beautiful also, but in a different way.

 

00:58:25.26

VARSITY

Mm-hmm.

 

00:58:35.97

VARSITY

Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

 

00:58:38.42

Diane Harris

I like to see photographs that are printed.

 

00:58:40.57

VARSITY

I agree. I agree fully. And I do think that National Geographic is one of the more, if not the most popular Instagram account, certainly within the the media world, for for that exact reason because of the imagery.

 

00:58:49.91

Diane Harris

Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah.

 

00:58:52.86

VARSITY

but So one final question. What have you learned that you wish you could have told your younger self?

 

00:58:55.47

Diane Harris

Yes, sir. Yeah. You know, kind of like what I’m looking forward to as I’m aging, some of that answer is the stuff that everybody says. You know, I do wish that as someone who came to fitness and exercise late in my life, like, you know, like you know what they tell you about like exercising and eating right and everything like that’s true you should you should really do that stuff and it makes such a difference and and that’s you know uh doing it now so is starting to save early being more present and in the moment and nurturing

 

00:59:44.40

Diane Harris

the relationships in your life because that’s what will sustain you in the long run. All of that stuff that people say is true and things that, you know, listen when people say that stuff, I would say to younger Diane.

 

00:59:56.13

VARSITY

since That’s great.

 

00:59:58.85

Diane Harris

But I wanted to think about something that you might not always hear, at least this is what I would say to myself, and that is be bolder.

 

01:00:10.76

Diane Harris

I wish in my life that, you know, i’m I’m a person who, you know, none of us really like change, but i’m I’m really one of those incremental change kind of people. But being bolder has always rewarded me when i when when I’ve been pushed into it. and so maybe, you know, if I had taken a year to live abroad and see a different perspective, or I’ve lived in the greater New York metropolitan area my entire life, I’ve moved to a different area of the country and seen a different perspective. I just, or if when I was making a very good living as a journalist at Time Inc, you know, in a big

 

01:01:00.34

Diane Harris

Like if I hadn’t been quite so bound by golden handcuffs and had done something that that spoke more to my passion and and and took time to do that.

 

01:01:03.78

VARSITY

I love that.

 

01:01:11.92

Diane Harris

So just being bolder in your choices rewards you in the end and leads to a richer life. It’s not always about richer in the traditional sense of things.

 

01:01:24.59

VARSITY

Right.

 

01:01:25.88

Diane Harris

So that’s what I would say at the end of Diane.

 

01:01:28.67

VARSITY

That’s great. Well, Diane Harris, thank you so much. I’ve really enjoyed it. I’ve always always enjoyed our conversations, but thank you for spending you know such a good amount of time with us today. And thanks to everybody for listening again.

 

01:01:41.74

VARSITY

We’ll be back again and in a couple of weeks with another episode of Roundtable Talk. I’d also like to thank Dave Schaffner, our producer, and Matt Campbell, our engineer.

 

01:01:51.02

Diane Harris

Thank you.

 

01:01:51.07

VARSITY

Have a great day.

 

01:01:51.30

Diane Harris

It was my pleasure. It was a great conversation.

 

01:01:53.34

VARSITY

Bye, Diane.

 

01:01:54.70

Diane Harris

Bye bye.