35:
Kathy Stokes & Matt Mizenko

QUOTES

“We cannot educate our way out of what is a $200 billion-a-year fraud crisis.” (Kathy)

“These businesses are businesses. They are criminal businesses, but they run like a business. They have targets for their employees. They have bonuses for their employees. They have playbooks and very sophisticated scripts. They very much know what they are doing.” (Matt)

“The bigger problem with AI isn’t deepfakes. They’re using AI to harvest the immense amounts of data that have been put out there on the dark web about each of us through data breaches.” (Matt)

“The criminals have had the same playbook for thousands of years. They know what to do to get a person to bypass logic and react emotionally. Before, they didn’t have the technology to scale and perfect it.” (Kathy)

“We’ve been allowing ourselves to believe that it only happens to older people because there must be some cognitive decline or they’re not tech savvy. We were looking for reasons to blame it on older people. That’s not the reality. They’re targeting everybody.” (Kathy)

“They’ve basically taken the practices that banks taught consumers and turned them on their head. They’re saying, ‘We’re calling to be your friend and verify this transaction.'” (Matt)

“If the number calling you is not a number you know, that’s a red flag. Don’t interact with it. Even five seconds of engagement tells criminals you’re a valuable number, and it gets sold again and again.” (Kathy)

“Don’t be afraid to hang up and call back. Anytime something seems suspicious, weird or like you have to decide right now, slow down and verify it yourself.” (Matt)

“We all need to understand this happens to everybody. The smartest, most educated people get scammed because it’s not about intellect or education. It’s because the criminals have a playbook, and it works.” (Kathy)

“Whether it’s Nomorobo or another solution, absolutely you should have something on your phone to protect against those calls. Full stop.” (Matt)

“If you did four or five simple things today, you’d be ten times more protected than you were this morning. But it shouldn’t be our job to protect ourselves when this is the number one crime in the country.” (Kathy)

“You don’t know everything. When you don’t know everything, don’t be afraid to admit it and look for somebody who does.” (Matt)

NOTES

Kathy Stokes is director of fraud prevention programs at AARP, where she leads the organization’s Fraud Watch Network and national efforts to educate consumers, advocate for systemic change and support victims of financial fraud. She is a nationally recognized expert on fraud prevention, financial exploitation and consumer protection.

Matt Mizenko is general manager of Nomorobo, where he oversees technology that protects consumers and businesses from robocalls, spam calls and fraudulent text messages. With a background in software development and mobile technology, he has spent his career building products that solve complex technology challenges.

AARP is the nation’s largest nonprofit, nonpartisan organization dedicated to empowering people as they age. Through its Fraud Watch Network, AARP provides education, fraud alerts, advocacy, victim support, a national helpline and volunteer-led outreach to help consumers recognize, avoid and recover from scams.

AARP’s Fraud Watch Network includes fraud fighter volunteers in every state, a dedicated helpline available to anyone regardless of age or membership, support groups for fraud victims and families, a scam tracking map, biweekly watchdog alerts and the award-winning The Perfect Scam podcast. The organization has also expanded its advocacy efforts at the state and federal levels to pursue systemic solutions to the growing fraud epidemic.

Nomorobo is a call-blocking technology company founded after winning the FTC’s Robocall Challenge in 2013. Its platform uses advanced analytics, audio fingerprinting and call screening to identify and block robocalls, spam calls and suspicious text messages before they reach consumers and businesses.

Nomorobo maintains a network of approximately 300,000 “honeypot” phone numbers that help identify fraudulent callers in real time. The company also partners with AARP to provide discounted protection for members while sharing intelligence about emerging scam tactics to improve consumer education and awareness.

Kathy says fraud has evolved into a global, organized criminal enterprise worth hundreds of billions of dollars annually and believes education alone cannot solve the problem.

Matt explains that modern scam operations function like sophisticated businesses, complete with employee targets, scripts, incentives and advanced technology.

Kathy notes that scammers rely on emotional manipulation rather than intelligence, using fear, urgency and surprise to push victims into acting before they have time to think logically.

Matt explains that AI is allowing criminals to gather and organize massive amounts of stolen personal data, enabling highly personalized scams that immediately establish credibility.

Kathy challenges the misconception that scams primarily affect older adults, arguing that criminals target anyone but often focus on older adults because they have accumulated more assets.

Matt encourages consumers to hang up, independently verify suspicious claims and never feel pressured to make immediate decisions during unexpected calls.

Kathy urges fraud victims to report incidents to law enforcement, emphasizing that fraud is a crime and that greater reporting helps illustrate the true scale of the problem while reducing the stigma victims often feel.

Both guests stress that consumers should use available call-blocking technology, remain skeptical of unsolicited communications and view fraud prevention as a shared responsibility among individuals, technology companies and policymakers.