EP 03:
Dr. Sara Zeff Geber

Quotes

“I define the solo ager as anyone who doesn’t have children – married or single – and anyone who is aging alone who is not supported by family.” (Sara)

“As the Boomers age, we’re really seeing a big issue with who is going to support those people who don’t have the adult children or other family around to support them.” (Sara) 

“The most important factor (for solo agers) is building a community. The more we can begin to build community as we go through middle age and into later life, it will pay so many dividends later in life.” (Sara) 

“There are many solo agers who have no family to count on, but they may know younger people that they can ask to be a proxy for them.” (Sara) 

“(Technology) has certainly helped solo agers who have far-flung families to stay in touch with each other (but) it does make up for that face-to-face, touchable contact.” (Sara) 

“I just don’t think people understand what aging in place really looks like. For most people, aging in place ultimately becomes a pretty isolating experience.” (Sara) 

“The difference for solo agers is there’s nobody coming to take them out for Thanksgiving. There’s nobody coming to celebrate birthdays with them. Senior living communities need to step up their game of actually replacing the family that solo agers don’t have.” (Sara) 

Notes

Dr. Sara Zeff Geber is the nation’s foremost authority on solo aging and the author of Essential Retirement Planning for Solo Agers. She not only coined the phrase “solo ager” but she’s a solo ager herself.

The solo ager population is not as small as some might think. In prior conversations Dr. Geber referenced data from a 2021 U.S. Census Bureau study. Focusing on the childless population, she explained that, among the generation preceding Baby Boomers, about 10% (around 2 million people) were childless. However, this percentage increased significantly with the Baby Boomer generation, especially among late boomers, where nearly 20% (one in five women) did not have children.

Sara says solo agers should start planning financial as early as possible but also focus on physical health. The most important factor is building a community of friends who can provide assistance if needed. 

Sara’s work with solo agers takes two forms. She works with solo agers directly and with senior living communities as a consultant. 

When Sara works with solo agers, she encourages them to build community and financial security earlier in life, working with a financial advisor whenever possible. 

Sara is a strong advocate for senior living communities as the best option for solo agers because of the built in community and support system that they provide. 

Gender plays a role in the solo ager experience. Men are less inclined to plan and are less inclined to be engaged socially. Women do a better job of building community. Women live longer, which means there are more women out there as solo agers. 

Transcript

00:24.40

vigorbranding

Thank you for joining us for this latest episode of Roundtable Talk, and today I’m thrilled to welcome Dr. Sara Zeff Geber to our episode. I’ve known Dr. Geber for some time now, and she just has an amazing insights to share, and we’ll put a link in,  but here is the book that she has written, Essential Retirement Planning for Solo Agers.

00:49.40

vigorbranding

And she’s been a contributor to Forbes dot.com. She was in a recent New York Times article, a featured guest, if you will, there discussing this topic.

 

01:01.69

vigorbranding

So we’re thrilled to have you. Thank you, Dr. Geber. And I know you said I can call you Sara. So thank you, Sara.

 

01:05.64

Sara

Yes, happy to be here.

 

01:06.60

vigorbranding

Welcome. So you yourself are a solo ager. And in fact, you coined that term solo ager. you know It’s now being used by the entire industry to describe a large segment of the senior population. For those listening and watching, how do you define solo ager?

 

01:25.25

Sara

I define a solo ager as anyone who doesn’t have children, married or single, And anyone who is aging alone who is not supported by family at some at some level nearby. So there’s lots of categories of solo-agers these days. When I first coined the phrase, I intended it to mean just people who didn’t have children. Because when you look around you at what’s going on in our society, it’s the adult children that are taking care of the oldest older adults in our country. So with the shift in demographics and the kind of what I call the family diaspora, people moving all over the place, yeah solo aging has become more and more common. And solo living has it’s become more and more common, but now as the boomers age,

 

02:27.58

Sara

We’re really seeing and a big issue with who is going to support those people that don’t have the adult children or other family around to support them.

 

02:37.55

vigorbranding

Interesting. So let’s go back to the early days of your work in researching this this population. What inspired you to devote your career to understanding solo wages?

 

02:46.93

Sara

Well, considering I am one, and I am one by virtue of the fact that I don’t have children, I am married and My husband and I don’t have a crystal ball, so we don’t know which one of us is going to go first. And that’s just the reality of our lives and of other people’s lives who are child free. So it’s it started being a consideration for me about, I don’t know, 12, 13 years ago. And then I got kind of fascinated by the phenomenon. And I did some research on how prevalent it is and found that

 

03:22.55

Sara

I certainly wasn’t alone and then it was growing a growing theme in society.

 

03:29.67

vigorbranding

Interesting. So in your book, Essential Retirement Planning for Solo Agers, you emphasize the importance of planning while in good physical and mental health.

 

03:35.21

Sara

Well, I think it doesn’t vary too much from anyone who wants to

 

03:38.72

vigorbranding

What are the most important steps that solo agers should take when they start planning for their own retirement?

 

03:45.91

Sara

well i think it’s doesn’t vary too much from anyone who wants to kind of make sure that they are as healthy as possible throughout the rest of their life. The earlier you start planning financially, the earlier you start planning physically, in other words, staying in good shape, being really cognizant of what you eat, what you put in your body. and These are things that tend to pay dividends in the long run if we pay attention to them. so

 

04:22.51

Sara

So starting early with all aspects of ah growing older and all aspects of of being potentially alone as we get older is an important thing. And I think the most important factor there is building a community. The more we can begin to build community as we go through middle age and into our later life, it will pay so many dividends you know, later in life. So those, to me, those are the most critical areas.

 

04:55.66

vigorbranding

That’s a great point. I mean, the first point you made, certainly there are lessons in there for anybody who’s aging, which is anybody. But you know the whole notion of building community, I think given where we are today as a society with technology, it’s so easy to isolate ourselves and it’s so easy to fall into the trap of not having that sense of community or that that true community around us.

 

05:19.66

Sara

Yeah, absolutely.

 

05:22.45

vigorbranding

So not necessarily related to this topic, but what do you look forward to as you continue to age?

 

05:28.68

Sara

Well, I certainly want to continue to live in the community that I have grown to love, but not forever. I’ve visited enough continuing care retirement communities, life plan communities,

 

05:46.98

Sara

and all levels of senior living that i’m I’m quite certain that my future, hopefully my husband’s in my future, but certainly mine, will be in a life plan community. I live in kind of the outskirts of the San Francisco Bay Area, and there are many, many, many ah life plan communities in the Bay Area. And I’ve probably visited them all.

 

06:11.66

Sara

oh in my presentations or my consulting work or something. So that’s been an advantageous for me personally, because I’ve gotten to check them all out. So we will kind of narrow down the field and we’ll choose one and make that our final home.

 

06:30.04

vigorbranding

Well, I look forward to hearing which one you choose. I’m not going to ask you to name names, but if you could define what you think is the ideal Lifeline community for you as a solo ager, how would you describe it?

 

06:42.84

Sara

ah this And I will be happy to do that. And as I do that, I think that I’m really describing the ideal community for most solo-agers and maybe most people in general.

 

06:52.08

vigorbranding

Great.

 

06:54.73

Sara

But what I look for now is how involved are the residents in the government governance of the community, the activities that take them outside the community,

 

07:09.39

Sara

Are they engaged with a nearby college or university? Are they engaged with maybe a daycare center somewhere where they can have some intergenerational contacts? Maybe they have contacts with one of the one of the food banks and people can go out into the community and cook and serve food. I think that is so important.

 

07:37.16

Sara

It may not have been as important to our parents’ generation, but it’s pretty important for boomers, I’ve found. Now, you know, there’s also a faction of boomers that that want the experience of, what’s the Jimmy Buffett community called? the

 

07:57.24

vigorbranding

oh yeah marguite deville or

 

07:59.06

Sara

Margaritaville, that’s their image of later life. But I find more and more that that’s not what most people envision for themselves in a forever context.

 

08:09.86

Sara

They want to have a community where they have reason to get up in the morning, where they have a sense of meaning and purpose as long as they possibly can. So that’s what I’m looking for.

 

08:21.78

vigorbranding

Oh, yeah, Margaritaville.

 

08:21.82

Sara

There’s one and interesting community in the Bay Area. It’s certainly not in the best area of the Bay Area. It’s not the fanciest community. But whenever I go there, and so I’ve been speaking there about once a year to their prospects and whatnot, but I am always so impressed with how engaged their residents are. I remember the first time I was there, I was invited to stay for dinner, and I accepted. So I was sitting and chatting after my presentation with the marketing director, and I said,

 

09:00.74

Sara

You know, before we go to dinner, I’m just wondering, where can I get a glass of wine to have with dinner or sip on the forehand? And he said, oh, let me check that the residents run the bar. Let me let me check and see what we have to do here. And I thought that was so healthy, just the fact that he had to go to the residents to find out what was happening when the bar was going to open.

 

09:26.62

Sara

how I would pay for my drink or what would be complimentary. I just thought that was amazing. So I like to recount that story because and get that in that particular community, the residents run a lot.

 

09:41.87

Sara

So.

 

09:42.27

vigorbranding

That’s great, that’s great. So they have a true sense of community, but  certainly accountability and play a large role in it, just like I think we all want that that sense of control in our lives, right?

 

09:45.39

Sara

Yeah.

 

09:49.08

Sara

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

 

09:55.41

vigorbranding

Interesting. So, getting back to solo aging, without family support, how can solo agers build networks for the emotional, the physical, you know, financial support, all of those kinds of things? And where does that support come from for this this group that you’ve focused your professional experience on?

 

10:14.21

Sara

That’s the challenge for most solo agers. i and my life My work is kind of in two veins. One, I work with solo agers. I hold workshops for solo agers. I speak to solo agers and seen from in senior centers and all over the place. And then I also work with senior living communities as a consultant and as a speaker. so When I am with the solo agers, I am encourage them to i’m encourage them always to begin to build community early, begin to take a look at their finances early. And i I’m a big fan of enlisting the help of a financial advisor. I think managing our finances is, for most people, not their forte. And we can’t ignore it.

 

11:13.93

Sara

Most of us should be still building our finances. So getting professional help with that, getting professional legal help in developing a advanced directive for healthcare and a power of attorney, all of those things, the earlier you can do them, the better you better off you’ll be. You certainly need to revisit them many times. I try and revisit mine at least every seven years, because things change. you know the  environment around me changes. The people in my life shift around sometimes. Some of them leave.

 

11:53.81

Sara

And so it takes some vigilance.

 

11:59.75

vigorbranding

Sure.

 

11:59.83

Sara

It also takes some fortitude to really get going on that. I’ve seen the resistance to doing that in solo-agers that come up so often because the challenging thing for solo-agers is to choose proxies. You know, when you sit down with an estate attorney and he or she gives you the form to fill out so that they can prepare an estate plan for you, there is that question, that who is going to speak for you when and if you cannot speak for yourself. And a lot of solo-agers have nobody to put down.

 

12:41.35

Sara

and because they haven’t cultivated anyone. And you can cultivate people that ah that you can remain close to and that you can include in your community from an early age, certainly from middle age. There are many solo wagers who have no family to count on in that regard, but they may know younger people that they can ask to be that that proxy for them.

 

13:12.46

vigorbranding

I did think that was interesting.

 

13:12.57

Sara

Some people will, no, I was saying some people will well say, no, I’m uncomfortable with that.

 

13:13.95

vigorbranding

Oops, sorry go ahead.

 

13:21.87

Sara

My experience has been that most people are, they’re, we want to use the word flattered, but they’re moved to be asked to do that. And that could be a good source.

 

13:34.95

Sara

Nieces and nephews are a good source of of people to be or proxies. But that’s the challenge. That’s the big challenge for solo-agers, because they need to cultivate those relationships.

 

13:48.88

vigorbranding

I did think it was interesting in your book how you share stories and and a lot of anecdotes. And I don’t know how many of the names you changed. I realize it’s only first names. But you tell a story about a couple who moved into a neighborhood, established a relationship with a younger you know neighbors, and how they really yeah created that connection as a way to provide

 

13:57.60

Sara

yeah

 

14:12.17

vigorbranding

them with not only long-term friends from that point forward, but also people who they could lean on for these kinds of resources.

 

14:20.72

Sara

Yeah, Fred and Hilde, the older neighbors of my friends, Andrea and Peter. Those are actually the only names in the book that I did not change because I got permission from my friend Andrea to talk about them and Fred and Hilde have now passed on.

 

14:26.04

vigorbranding

1. OK. Sure.

 

14:37.18

Sara

But Fred and Hilde were classic solo-agers and they were in their 80s and they really had no one. They had no kids and they befriended their neighbors. Unfortunately, their neighbors were good ah good, solid, caring, honest people.

 

14:54.47

Sara

And so they ended up being their guardians later in life.

 

14:55.74

vigorbranding

That’s critical, obviously.

 

15:00.08

Sara

But the scary part of that story is that Fred and Hildy got into their 80s without knowing what they were going to do. And it just so happened that Andrea and Peter kind of came along and moved into the house three doors down.

 

15:13.30

Sara

So that’s why I caution people not to leave things to chance like that because they may not have

 

15:14.46

vigorbranding

sort

 

15:19.58

Sara

a couple three doors down that would be the honest proxies that Andrea and Peter became.

 

15:26.90

vigorbranding

That’s great. So what are some of the key elements of retirement planning that that solo wages often overlook? I mean, you’ve kind of alluded to some, but what are some of those primary points?

 

15:38.54

Sara

Well, I’m always gonna come down on community being the most important, but certainly financial and legal are important too. When I do my workshops for solo-agers, we spend a lot of time talking about the financial and the legal. I always have a guest expert come in to talk about finances, talk another to talk about the legal. I bring in a senior care advisor to talk about what caregiving looks like, because a lot of people don’t know.

 

16:10.43

Sara

And so it gives them an opportunity to kind of slowly build up an understanding of what they’re going to need and to start to put those resources in place.

 

16:20.61

vigorbranding

That’s great. Well, you know obviously you’re spending your career you know thinking about this subject. What’s been one of the most challenging aspects preparing for your own solo aging journey?

 

16:31.58

Sara

Well, I’ve had to do the same things because I’m quite aware that I need to walk my talk. So I have spent a lot of time making sure that we keep up, my husband and I keep up with our estate plan and and our financial advisor. We’re fortunate that we’ve had good careers all of our life. This is totally a second career for me. I used to be a management consultant up to about 15 years ago. So oh so it’s… a

 

17:04.86

Sara

We have had to keep up with that and I think also making sure that I’m still watching to see where our next community might be, where which life plan community would be right for us. And also being kind of, I try to be of help and and ah kind of a model for the people around me who, whether they’re solo agers or not, and encourage them to do the planning that I think is so critical.

 

17:35.88

Sara

I have one set of neighbors that we’ve become very friendly with, and they’re not classic solo-agers. They have one son that they’re very close to emotionally, but not physically.

 

17:51.05

Sara

He ah married a Danish woman, so they’re raising their kids in Copenhagen. That’s a long way from the San Francisco Bay Area.

 

17:59.19

vigorbranding

Indeed.

 

17:59.65

Sara

So, you know, I kind of nudged them a little bit toward thinking about the future because he’s not in a position to rush in in a crisis, but somebody nearby needs to be, so.

 

18:12.71

vigorbranding

That’s a great point. And I’m sure your role as a management consultant really has laid ah a strong foundation in your experience to be able to, you know, support and help individuals and organizations.

 

18:23.69

Sara

It has, it has. I have a strong communication training and ah background, so that helps, yeah.

 

18:30.98

vigorbranding

Well, that’s great. So you know while there are challenges, what have been some of the unexpected joys or positive aspects of solo aging that you’ve personally discovered along the way?

 

18:40.57

Sara

Well, you know, Derek sent me his list of questions before we got going on this. And I just loved that question because I have just, I have met some of the most wonderful people in the senior living industry and in the world of aging and retirement., I did some retirement coaching before I got into, before I kind of discovered solo aging and specialized in that., and I met people that were,

 

19:10.14

Sara

in the business of of the developing retirement coaching practices. And I learned a lot from them. And ah then when I got really interested in the whole solo aging and how the senior living industry fits so so strongly and necessarily into that, then I started getting to know people in that industry. And it was it has been a delight. You know, the people that I than I knew and the clients I had in management consulting did not have the heart that the people I meet in the senior living industry do and in the aging community.

 

19:45.93

vigorbranding

Hmm.

 

19:49.84

Sara

It’s just a whole different ball game. And honestly, I wish I had found this as the avenue for my career when I was in my 20s or 30s.

 

19:59.98

Sara

But here I am now and really enjoying the the people that I’ve met.

 

20:07.40

vigorbranding

Well, that’s great. what ah What a great second chapter, I guess, you know in and in your life.

 

20:09.97

Sara

Yeah.

 

20:11.87

vigorbranding

So what role does technology play in helping soloagers maintain their independence, build you know supportive communities, et cetera?

 

20:20.87

Sara

Well, it certainly helps solo-agers who have far-flung families to stay in touch with one another. Most of my friends who have grown kids who live in other states or other countries have ah weekly Online zoom meetings or FaceTime and so that that just simply wouldn’t exist Or didn’t exist 20 years ago, and now it’s at least a way to keep in touch And it so exceeds the ability to Really maintain a connection. It’s so much better than just a voice and

 

21:05.83

Sara

So, in ah in a sense, people have an opportunity to to see their parents who are aging, to see their kids who are maybe struggling ah with any number of things. It certainly doesn’t it doesn’t make up for that face-to-face touchable contact.

 

21:28.83

Sara

and i will I have gotten into some arguments with people who say, oh, you know, you don’t really need to be there as long as we had Zoom. And I said, no. I actually try to avoid as many Zoom contacts as possible.  I’ve been asked to do some work with some senior centers and some singing and some villages ah through Zoom. And I said, no.

 

22:00.57

Sara

Not going to do it. I’m happy to do it in person, but I’m just not going to do it via Zoom, not when you’re all together there in one geographic location.

 

22:10.75

vigorbranding

i think that’s great. and While you’re talking about communities, senior living communities, lifeline communities, you know you do you speak at a lot of these organizations, but you also advocate for them over aging in place or staying at home. What makes them a better option in your mind?

 

22:29.34

Sara

It’s, again, it’s right there in the name, community. I think it’s, and I’ll, I just don’t think people understand what aging in place is really going to look like. They think they’re still going to be able to hop into their car and go meet their friends for lunch and order, you know, whatever they need and go out and do things. But the reality of that,

 

22:58.67

Sara

is not what they think it’s going to be. And for most people, aging in place ultimately becomes a pretty isolating experience.

 

23:10.04

vigorbranding

Hmm.

 

23:10.30

Sara

So I know that there are millions of people out there that are still going to do it. And you know it’s pretty viable if you have adult children that live nearby and that can make sure that you have groceries and medications and that you’re taking them regularly and that you’re doing, I don’t know, everything from the physical therapy that your orthopedist recommended to eating the right foods, all of those things. There’s somebody, but for people who have adult children that are with them, that are there, that are paying attention, it’s a pretty different experience than for a solo ager who’s alone in their own home, even a couple.

 

23:56.86

Sara

who is alone in their own home that doesn’t have people looking in on them. it can be a challenging situation. Now, everybody wants to die having spent a great day on the golf course and a wonderful meal.

 

24:15.14

Sara

And then they just die in their sleep. And unfortunately, we don’t like to go that way. But unfortunately, that’s not the reality for most people. so

 

24:23.97

vigorbranding

Yeah, it generally doesn’t work that way, does it? But that’s a great point. But what can communities do to better serve this demographic? What do they need to put in place programming or otherwise?

 

24:37.69

Sara

Well, senior living communities are pretty well invested in that game anyway. There have always been plenty of widows and widowers that are residents in senior living communities. In many senior living communities, the single people, the unattached people, outnumber the couples. It depends which the balance that any and a particular community has. but the difference in seeing in for solo wagers is that there’s nobody coming to take them out for Thanksgiving. There’s nobody coming to celebrate birthdays with them. So in a very real sense, senior living communities are going to need to step up the game of actually replacing the family that senior lo that that solo wagers don’t have.

 

25:34.03

Sara

And that can take a lot of different forms. So it’s an it’s see it’s a different topic than the whole issue of making sure that people have meaning and purpose and something to do in their lives. But there are a lot of things that adult children do for their aging parents. It’s not planned in advance. Most people have this experience, kind of it unfolds day by day.

 

26:03.67

Sara

and they’re there when the people who manage the care at the senior living community or manage the day-to-day life of the people in the community, of the residents, when they have a question about, you know,

 

26:28.97

Sara

is your I don’t know if this person has a history of, I don’t know what it might be, a history of sleepwalking or does this person have a history of not being ah not being able to manage their finances or there’s nobody to call for a soloager. So a lot of that knowledge has to be developed early on

 

26:59.98

Sara

by the community and many communities I think are going to have to keep a pretty good Rolodex to use an old term, ah but a resource database of people that might come in and take fiduciary responsibility for an older adult who has no living children. the In California, we have a ah wonderful thing called a licensed professional fiduciary.

 

27:28.97

Sara

And that is what they do. They are, in a sense, they take the place of the adult children that they don’t have. I have talked to several fiduciaries. I know that I will engage a professional fiduciary to be that person who will come in and speak for me if I cannot. I also have ah a cousin and a niece that will play a role there, but I want someone local

 

27:56.08

vigorbranding

so

 

27:56.07

Sara

I want someone that really knows the resources in my area to be the kind of on the front line, communicating with my far-flung family, whoever is left. But that person needs to speak for me and to be the resource for the senior living community. And I think it may get to a point where a resident is going to be in a sense required to have someone that will, the to back them up.

 

28:29.96

vigorbranding

Sure.

 

28:30.19

Sara

And ah I think of a senior living community that is doing a good job and in in sourcing people can have a kind of a vetted list of individuals that can do that.

 

28:46.57

Sara

Much the same as they, when someone gets seriously interested then I know that most senior living communities have move ah specialists, senior move specialists.

 

29:00.51

Sara

In the same way, they need to have some people, maybe in other states, they might be professional licensed guardians who are that backup person.

 

29:12.08

Sara

So anyway, I’m getting long winded about that.

 

29:13.82

vigorbranding

that’s a really interesting No, that’s a really interesting thought that for you know communities or organizations, yes when somebody moves in relatively young, relatively vibrant,

 

29:26.27

vigorbranding

you know In theory, at least, they’re going to be there the rest of their lives, and there does need to be that provision. That’s a really interesting point.

 

29:34.01

Sara

Yeah, it’s there’s not there’s no easy answers to that, but we’re going to have to figure it out.

 

29:38.51

vigorbranding

ye Now, you mentioned in a recent conversation that communities when they’re talking to solo-agers shouldn’t focus solely on amenities. you know you’ve mentioned that you look for communities where people are involved in meaningful activities, community services, that sort of thing. You talked a little bit about it earlier on in the conversation, but anything you want to add to that or are other things that you look for personally.

 

30:04.52

Sara

Well, again, it’s to me, it’s all about engagement. How engaged are the residents in outside activities? And it could be anything it could be sports, it could be games, but in many cases, it needs to be something more gratifying than that, more meaningful, which might probably mean going out into the community and working with people ah who are younger,

 

30:33.44

Sara

or people who are ah disadvantaged in some way?

 

30:38.13

vigorbranding

That’s great. Interesting. Now, what role does gender play, you know, have you observed any differences between male and female solo ages in terms of the planning social support systems things that they need or are seeking

 

30:52.60

Sara

Well, the differences that we all experience every day manifest themselves in solo-agers too. Men are less inclined.

 

31:03.68

Sara

to plan. ah They’re less inclined to be engaged socially. Women do a better job of building community. And women still live longer. So there are more women solo-agers out there than there are men. But there are plenty of men, and men do need to plan as well. Men often are, I want to say, do a better job with their finances. But really, still, men have made more money in their lives. so their finances tend to be in better shape then than women’s simply by virtue of the fact that they’ve just been able to make more in their lifetime. So yeah, I think I definitely admire men who acknowledge that this is going to be, you know, they’re getting older and this is where they’re going to live is going to be important. So, you know, those are the differences that I see.

 

32:01.45

vigorbranding

That is interesting. I’ve led a number of of group discussions in communities and many, many times I will have, I’ll be speaking with women whose, you know, they and their husband made the decision of where they wanted to to live their lives. And the husband really did it to make sure that the wife was set up because they figured they would pass first.

 

32:23.07

Sara

Yeah, usually do.

 

32:23.55

vigorbranding

And in fact, they did. And the wife is you know obviously eternally grateful for having that foresight, that kind of selfless notion, because in many cases, maybe the husband didn’t want to make that that move.

 

32:39.24

Sara

Yeah.

 

32:39.48

vigorbranding

So I’m curious, what policy changes would you like to see ah to better support this population of solo agers?

 

32:47.32

Sara

Well, I think people who have money, are in much better shape, obviously, to be able to make choices for themselves, hopefully make good choices. It’s the lower end of the population and the forgotten middle that worries me. I am seeing progress slow. I’m seeing progress made in the senior living industry toward making some accommodations for the middle, for middle-class people, because senior living has always been pretty

 

33:20.70

Sara

pretty out of reach for most people. But if we can find a way to make senior living accessible to people that have made a modest income all of their lives, my the greatest,

 

33:40.21

Sara

there’s a great example for that in in Boston, it’s the two life community. And they have done an excellent job and it’s a great model of building a facility that is designed for middle-class Americans, for older middle-class Americans. And you know, it it simply involves more participation in the running of the community from the residents. And that makes sense anyway from some of the other things I said earlier, they’re having great success. Their community is full.

 

34:15.49

Sara

and I try and stay in touch with them just for the fact that they’re such a great model. And then of course at the lower end, I’m a big fan of the PACE program.

 

34:21.66

vigorbranding

That’s.

 

34:25.39

Sara

for If anybody doesn’t know what PACE is, it’s the Program of All Inclusive Care for the Elderly. That’s what the acronym is. And expanding that program will be very important.

 

34:41.81

vigorbranding

Absolutely. you And I know you know just from looking at the industry, you’re absolutely right. The higher end, socioeconomically, there are lots of options.

 

34:52.31

vigorbranding

And the lower end, there are lots of options with you know affordable housing, even though there’s not enough to you fulfill the demand. But there certainly are options out there.

 

35:02.09

Sara

Yeah.

 

35:03.42

vigorbranding

But that that middle is really, I think that’s the next issue to crack.

 

35:07.80

Sara

Yeah.

 

35:10.57

Sara

Yeah. Those are the people that think they’re just going to age in place and yeah.

 

35:14.81

vigorbranding

So you’ve been studying this group of folks for more than a decade. How has the senior living, you know, field come? How far has it come in that time, understanding this population and serving their needs and what work remains?

 

35:35.81

Sara

I think they’re actually doing a really good job. I find tremendous interest when I go out into the senior living world and talk about solo aging, tremendous interest, very little pushback. And I don’t know if I’ve ever seen anyone actually push back and say, you know, you’re full of baloney. This isn’t happening. is It’s so obvious that it’s happening. It just couldn’t be more obvious. So figuring out the right solution for your community is going to be incumbent on you to do in the next few years, because we’re going to have that avalanche that’s already starting. And being prepared for that in in the ways that that you and I have talked about, Derek, is going to be critical for all senior living communities.

 

36:25.37

vigorbranding

Absolutely. So how do you see the landscape of solo aging evolving over the next decade, especially as the number of childless adults grows?

 

36:34.27

Sara

Well, that’s growing. When I started looking at the numbers, the statistics, I discovered that, of course, the baby boomers had twice as many, well, the rate of childlessness was double, let’s say that. In all previous generations, it had been about 10%. With the boomers, it reached almost 20%. Gen X, on the other hand, when that took a little bit of a dip. They had more kids.

 

37:04.27

Sara

But they’re still at about the 12, 13, 14% level. And it’s that family diaspora that also enters into the picture. So I think that in the future generations are going to have more and more of the experience of this. Gosh, the generation that’s in there in their 20s and 30s now, their rate of childlessness is huge.

 

37:32.91

Sara

So they may change their minds. The boomers changed their minds. And a lot of people had kids in their 30s and into their 40s. But we’ll see. But I think it’s only going to grow.

 

37:44.14

vigorbranding

Yep, interesting, interesting. So one last question. What have you learned that you wish you could have told your younger self to help you prepare for your future? What do you wish you could go back and tell your younger self?

 

38:01.58

Sara

Oh gosh, let’s see.

 

38:07.49

Sara

What would that be? ah Probably ah believe to discover the world of aging and retirement and the professionals in that world that I could do the work I’ve done with my background in psychology and organizational behavior that I could have done that in a different industry than the tech world.

 

38:30.02

Sara

but

 

38:31.45

vigorbranding

That’s great. That’s great. Well, I don’t know if you know Dr. Robin Stone, who is at leading age. She’s you know been there for a number of years and has a storied career. She often refers to aging services as an accidental career, that that people don’t often start there, but they find it and love it once they get there.

 

38:45.99

Sara

ah Yeah.

 

38:50.38

vigorbranding

So it sounds like that’s the case for you.

 

38:50.79

Sara

It’s so, it’s so true. That’s certainly been the case for me. The people in this world are just, they have they have just been like a warm cocoon for me.

 

39:03.20

vigorbranding

I love that.

 

39:03.13

Sara

So I’m a pretty happy camper with what I’m doing.

 

39:07.21

vigorbranding

That’s great. That’s great. Well, Dr. Geber, I cannot thank you enough for being here today and sharing your wisdom, sharing your thoughts. Again, we’ll put a link to it, but the book is Essential Retirement Planning for Solo Agers.

 

39:20.74

vigorbranding

and Dr. Geber’s website is SaraZeffGeber.com. That’s Sara without an H. Zeff, Z-E-F-F, and G-E-B-E-R,.com.

 

39:32.89

vigorbranding

We’ll put a link as well. But thank you, Dr. Geber. Really, really appreciate your time and and insights that you shared with us today.

 

39:40.42

Sara

Thank you, Derek. This has been a pleasure.

 

39:42.88

vigorbranding

That’s great. And I’d also like to thank ah Dave Shoffner, our producer, and Matt Campbell, our engineer, for everything that they’ve done in putting this and every other episode together. but Take care, and we’ll talk to you again real soon.

 

39:55.89

Sara

Okay, sounds good.

 

39:57.48

vigorbranding

All right, bye-bye now.